Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Choosing between Police and Military

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Choosing between Police and Military

    Hello Officers,

    I am currently in the last stages of recruiting with my city's PD, but I have recently discovered that I may have an alternate opportunity through the US Army.
    I currently qualify for direct accession with the CID (31D) and, because I have a BA, am able to enlist as an E4 Specialist. From what I understand, prior military tend to make for better police, and since my goal is to eventually work as a federal agent (FBI, Marshals, etc.), I'm wondering whether going city PD or US Army would make more long-term sense.

    Thanks

  • #2
    If you pursue the military, get EVERYTHING in writing, otherwise you may find yourself as an E-1 in a job you don't want! Why don't you try the Commissioned Officer route?
    Former Police Officer (Injured LOD)
    USAF VETERAN 2004-2012
    "The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."-LTC Grossman
    Emergency Services Dispatcher, APG MD

    Comment


    • #3
      J2H
      CID does not have any commissioned positions, and there is no comparable MOS or training through the commissioned track. I have considered going to OCS or getting a masters degree with ROTC, but considering that I would like to have an active investigative role, going enlisted is the only eligible choice.

      Eventually I would like to get a degree in forensic science, which is also an available path for Warrant Officers in the CID.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not an expert on the CID process, but like I stated, just make sure if you do it, get it in writing.... There are civilians that work with CID as well.
        Former Police Officer (Injured LOD)
        USAF VETERAN 2004-2012
        "The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day."-LTC Grossman
        Emergency Services Dispatcher, APG MD

        Comment


        • NaturalZero
          NaturalZero commented
          Editing a comment
          I've read about the CID Civilian Special Agents, but I definitely don't qualify for any of those positions. The expectation for civilian agents is that they are already experienced investigators or specialists in their field.

      • #5
        When making your decision, remove the idea that "prior military tend to make for better police" from your mind...it's simply not true. I've worked with prior military who were drooling idiots and people who were not even close to "being military" who were the best LEO's I've ever seen. Military experience does NOT automatically translate to LE.
        "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
        -Friedrich Nietzsche

        Comment


        • NaturalZero
          NaturalZero commented
          Editing a comment
          I understand what you mean. I think that military service might be of some benefit to me personally, as I have always been more of a reader than a runner, and have never had a strong hierarchical structure in any place I have worked.

          I think that the military might give me good opportunities when it comes to fitness, training, and a sense for a real command structure that are all fairly alien to me right now. From the interviews I've had with my city's police department, I believe they are looking for people who already have these skills.

      • #6
        Some of the best Marines I know would be terrible cops. Some of the best cops I know would make terrible Marines.

        I’ve been fortunate to do both well, but not everyone can. My MOS had absolutely nothing to do with police experience, but it taught me life experience that I still lean on today.

        My advice is pick an MOS that you think fits who you are. The biggest things the military teaches are transferable to living a successful life is general: showing up on time, problem solving, working under pressure, dealing with people.
        I make my living on Irish welfare.

        Comment


        • NaturalZero
          NaturalZero commented
          Editing a comment
          I'm really aiming for a Federal LEO position as my end goal, and I think (or hope) that CID would present me with similar training opportunities and case work to what I would see in a civilian federal position. My main point of concern is whether I would get the same opportunities if I stuck to a local LEO position.

      • #7
        Army CID is a good track, it will get you some good law enforcement training, experience and also obtain a TS/SCI clearance. You can do the PD job and go CID in the reserves, too...just a thought.

        Something to think about, military CID is not treated the same as the civilian GS-1811 series Army CID. There are more restrictions to the military CID side, no real off duty carry ability, you go on a non-investigative TDY or vacation, your turning in your Creds and weapon while your gone...etc. but still a good gig. On the active duty side, you can also go into the USAPSB and do protective service.

        Know all you can before signing, if you fail the MOS or can't get a TS/SCI clearance....what happens then..etc.

        I did CID in the reserves with a Iraq deployment, PM me if I can help with any questions.

        Comment


        • NaturalZero
          NaturalZero commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for responding!
          My primary interest in joining the active duty CID is for the training and experience that would help me as a LEO moving forward, either in a military or civilian capacity. I do not currently have a background that would justify an 1811 position, but my goal is to acquire such skills during or after active service.

      • #8
        You should be a firefighter.

        Comment


        • NaturalZero
          NaturalZero commented
          Editing a comment
          Why do you say that?

          I don't know whether to be flattered or insulted.

        • Saluki89
          Saluki89 commented
          Editing a comment
          Great pay, get to workout all day, nobody will ever hate you for doing your job and the likelihood of ending up in the news in a negative light is slim to none.
          Last edited by Saluki89; 07-14-2019, 12:09 AM.

        • NaturalZero
          NaturalZero commented
          Editing a comment
          I've seriously considered getting EMS training, but Firefighting is not something I have even the slightest desire to do.

      • #9
        Originally posted by NaturalZero View Post
        Hello Officers,

        I am currently in the last stages of recruiting with my city's PD, but I have recently discovered that I may have an alternate opportunity through the US Army.
        I currently qualify for direct accession with the CID (31D) and, because I have a BA, am able to enlist as an E4 Specialist. From what I understand, prior military tend to make for better police, and since my goal is to eventually work as a federal agent (FBI, Marshals, etc.), I'm wondering whether going city PD or US Army would make more long-term sense.

        Thanks
        Is your BA in criminal justice? To my understanding the CID pilot program requires a CJ degree.

        The military enlistment will lock you in for 4,5 or 6 years. The issues with FERS (federal pension program) is that it is constantly under attack. The recent changes have been directed only towards new hires. In other words things could change during your time in the military that could have a very negative impact on your retirement benefits. Also, your earning power will be severely limited. On the positive side It would give you good experience and make you pretty marketable plus if you later become a federal civilian LEO you could buy back your active duty time. You would also gain some other benefits due to being a veteran (education, home loans .. etc).

        Another (possibly better) option would be to look into CBP and/or Border Patrol. If your goal is to go federal this would immediately start your FERS covered time and you would also gain some experience. Your salary would be significantly better than active duty military.

        My oldest son was pretty much in your position(AS and BS in CJ plus 4 years with TSA) recently and he decided to go BP. He is about halfway through the academy and thoroughly enjoying himself.
        “Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.” - Steven Wright

        US Army MP (95B) 1992-1997
        DOJ Agent/ DHS Officer 1997 to Present

        Comment


        • NaturalZero
          NaturalZero commented
          Editing a comment
          My BA is in Psychology, which from the Go Army website is eligible for the CID Direct Accession Program. The recruiter I spoke with said that the norm for a 31D contract is for 4 years Active, same as 31B.

        • Exbpa340
          Exbpa340 commented
          Editing a comment
          10-4. Things must have recently changed. The program was called the CID pilot program and they only wanted a CJ degree.

          Good luck with your decision.

      • #10
        From what I understand, prior military tend to make for better police, and since my goal is to eventually work as a federal agent (FBI, Marshals, etc.), I'm wondering whether going city PD or US Army would make more long-term sense.
        Here's the deal:

        1. DO NOT join the military solely out of motivation to improve future jobs prospects.

        2. You seek a sense of command structure? Other than a few exceptions, Fed LE isn't heavy into paramilitary hierarchy. You will address your boss as "Steve" or "Sue", or if you really want to show deference, as "Boss." There is no daily roll call, no inspection, no marching down the hall, chin up, eyes forward. You come and go as long as you're where you need to be and have a long leash because bad guys don't report for roll call either.

        3. CID vs. Local PD: you're fresh out of college. Entry level is going to be entry level, no matter what you do. There is no "best" path to follow; CID may pigeonhole you into working supply chain procurement fraud and you'll spend four years looking at contracts and invoices. Local PD will put you on a patrol shift and you'll respond to everything from domestics to dirt bikes riding on train tracks. Either way, you'll be developing work habits and building skills and making connections.

        4. I'm going to give you the low dirty truth about something. What I am about to say is as true as the day is long.

        You are trying to plan your career to a T. You are analyzing every facet, every angle with long-term strategic thinking. That's admirable, but it's also a waste of time and energy and a possible harbinger of profound disappointment.

        Why? Because life never goes according to plan.

        Or when it does, that's the time for greatest concern. When everything comes together perfectly- is when everything falls apart.

        How these things work is this:

        Timing and opportunity will merge and you will end up in the right place based on your abilities. What decision you make now ultimately will have little impact on that.

        Don't overthink this. Follow your gut instincts over your analytical conclusions and you'll have no regrets.

        Btw, 1811 ranks are heavy with former local PD guys who wouldn't trade those early years of working the streets for anything.

        If you TRULY cannot make a decision, then flip a coin. So much of life- who we are born to, what country are born in, who we marry, what job we end up in, is a result of random determination, is it not?
        Last edited by Ratatatat; 07-14-2019, 10:04 AM.
        I used to be a banker but I lost interest.

        -Steven Wright

        Comment


        • #11
          Originally posted by J2H View Post
          If you pursue the military, get EVERYTHING in writing, otherwise you may find yourself as an E-1 in a job you don't want! Why don't you try the Commissioned Officer route?
          Well, for one you can't be a CID agent if you're a commissioned officer. Enlisted and warrants only.

          If I had the opportunity to go CID I would do it in a heart beat. They didn't have that program 30 years ago when I enlisted.

          _MOST_ CID agents investigate a variety of crime... there are a few civilian sex assault specialists and special groups and task forces but most new CID guys right out of the box are assigned to a detachment and investigate whatever comes along.

          It can be frustrating because the Army generally prefers to kick people out than prosecute, and anything involving civilians is going to be very kid-gloves. Despite statutory authority similar to any other federal agent CID agents have to work within the US military's aversion to even the appearance of performing civilian law enforcement.

          Yes, don't enlist JUST because it will look good on a resume and you'll have the opportunity for high speed training and even the potential to work on task forces with other alphabet agencies... it's still the Army and it will still suck... but I'd do it.

          Do as suggested, make sure EVERYTHING is in writing and realize if you wash out for any reason you'll end up being assigned "needs of the Army" which translates to "the job nobody else wants"... but that's true of any enlistment contract.
          Last edited by tanksoldier; 07-14-2019, 10:16 AM.
          "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

          "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

          Comment


          • #12
            Originally posted by Bing_Oh View Post
            When making your decision, remove the idea that "prior military tend to make for better police" from your mind...it's simply not true. I've worked with prior military who were drooling idiots and people who were not even close to "being military" who were the best LEO's I've ever seen. Military experience does NOT automatically translate to LE.
            I quote the above and couldn't agree more. I was in the Army. I remember in particular a field trainee. Total a##h$#e.to be around. He'd just gotten out of the Marine Corps. There were a few other Marines in his Academy class and I asked if he'd really been in the Marine Corps. They were embarrassed but said yes. Guy barely lasted 6 months as he saw an attractive female, ran her tag number and showed up at her door. Mistake. My point, no, military does not ensure good LEO. I was in the Army w/ some true slugs. (and some great people.)

            What do you want to do? Do you genuinely want to be in the military? CID is not the only job that is a good starting point for a Federal position
            as long as you can get a TS. Do some research. Look at the cut off scores for promotion. Some of the Intelligence jobs are still giving incredible bonuses.

            You've gotten some great feedback so far. Please take it to heart. Good luck to you.

            Comment


            • #13
              FWIW... I've heard of some commissioned officers in CID when I was in. My last active duty station was Ft Hood in the 90s.

              The CID agents I met or worked with then were much more meticulous than the civilian detectives / investigators I've worked with.

              If you do it just understand you will be treated the same as any other Private in basic training. I would also suggest looking into Warrant Officer Candidate School for CID.


              But like others have said there are other avenues to reaching your goals. The military isn't for everyone. But once your in, your in for a few years rather you like it or not. And if you wash out it could negatively effect your future career prospects.

              Good luck!

              Comment


              • #14
                Originally posted by westside popo View Post
                FWIW... I've heard of some commissioned officers in CID when I was in. My last active duty station was Ft Hood in the 90s.

                The CID agents I met or worked with then were much more meticulous than the civilian detectives / investigators I've worked with.

                If you do it just understand you will be treated the same as any other Private in basic training. I would also suggest looking into Warrant Officer Candidate School for CID.


                But like others have said there are other avenues to reaching your goals. The military isn't for everyone. But once your in, your in for a few years rather you like it or not. And if you wash out it could negatively effect your future career prospects.

                Good luck!
                It’s been many years since I have ETS’d but going warrant in CID happens after one is already a CID Agent (for many years). You don’t come in from the outside and enlist for CID/warrant school. One of my buddies back in the day was MPI assigned to CID. A few years later he was selected for CID and is still in the reserves. Many years later he was able to go warrant and is currently a CW2.
                “Right now I'm having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.” - Steven Wright

                US Army MP (95B) 1992-1997
                DOJ Agent/ DHS Officer 1997 to Present

                Comment


                • #15
                  FWIW... I've heard of some commissioned officers in CID when I was in.
                  There are MP branch officers who hold command positions but they aren't investigators.

                  I would also suggest looking into Warrant Officer Candidate School for CID.
                  Warrants serve as detachment commanders and very senior investigators. You don't get selected for WOCS right out of the box... same as any other warrant officer selection, except for pilots, you have to be a staff or senior NCO with many years of experience and be an acknowledged expert in your field.
                  Last edited by tanksoldier; 07-21-2019, 10:29 AM.
                  "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

                  "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

                  Comment

                  MR300x250 Tablet

                  Collapse

                  What's Going On

                  Collapse

                  There are currently 11967 users online. 449 members and 11518 guests.

                  Most users ever online was 19,482 at 12:44 PM on 09-29-2011.

                  Welcome Ad

                  Collapse
                  Working...
                  X