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  • Cops vs. Lawyers

    From what I've seen in videos, the vast majority of suspects have little or false understanding of law. I'm sure, however, there are times police confront real lawyers on the streets. Do you behave differently when dealing with lawyers?

  • #2
    of course not. I love lawyers...they taste like chicken.
    sigpic

    I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Smurfette_76
      of course not. I love lawyers...they taste like chicken.
      bwahahah!!!

      Lawyers are actually more fun to deal with because they try to intimidate you. The first things out of their mouths is "I am an attorney." Good for you, press hard, four copies.
      I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mech
        From what I've seen in videos, the vast majority of suspects have little or false understanding of law. I'm sure, however, there are times police confront real lawyers on the streets. Do you behave differently when dealing with lawyers?
        It wouldn't much matter to me, but what type of law, and what type of lawyer are we talking about...

        Bankruptcy Lawyer, Compensation Lawyer, Defense Lawyer, Divorce Lawyer, Fraud Lawyer, Insurance Lawyer, Medical Malpractice Lawyer, Personal Injury Lawyer, Nursing Home Lawyer, Social Security Lawyer, Wrongful Death Lawyer, Tax Lawyer, International Lawyer, Criminal Lawyer, Securities Lawyer, Car Accident Lawyer, Malpractice Lawyer, Software Lawyer.
        "Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought" ~Henri Louis Bergson
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        ComptonPOLICEGANGS.com

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        • #5
          I didn't have any specific type of lawyer in mind when I posted this thread. My friend found a story online, and it got me thinking about that question. The story:

          So I just bought a quarter of fine *** weed from my boy and I went to the nearest gas station to get some Dutches. I got the blunts and some food and I decided to roll the blunts right then and there. So I roll 2 and I'm working on the third and last when a cop pulls up. He pulled up just in time to see me dump the blunt guts out on the ground next to my car. Well he gets out of his car and says "Ok, I know why you kids empty out cigars. It's to smoke weed and don't lie. Give me your weed right now or I'll just search your car.
          Well I, a lawyer, wasn't about to be intimidated by a cop with a fourth grade education so I told him, "No I am not smoking weed and nothing about me cutting open a cigar implies any illegal activity. I'm a lawyer so I know the law."
          "EXCUSE ME SON! Ok you snot-nosed son of a bitch you could of cooperated but now I'm going to search your car and charge you with everything I can including verbal resistance."

          "VERBAL RESISTANCE! EXCUSE ME! Sir I am not a ****ing hick. I graduated in the top tenth of my law class at FSU. You may not search my car without a warrant, reasonable suspicion, or my consent. You don't have a warrant, cutting open a cigar is not reasonable suspicion because nothing about that is illegal in any way, and I damn sure do not give you my consent."
          "OK son get out of your car and let me see your hands."

          "What am I being charged with?"
          "Well I'll have to perform a search to find a charge."
          "THAT IS ILLEGAL! IF YOU PROCEED I WILL HAVE YOUR BADGE!"
          Well he muttered some legal mumbo jumbo (all of it was bull**** he made up) and he went to his car to call for back up.
          Well his back up came and it was the captain (the Head Honcho at the station) and the captain asked me out of my car to talk to me. I knew the captain from before in court and even though he didn't like me he respected me as a good lawyer so he acted professionally. He didn't even pat me down because he knew I knew he wasn't allowed. Well I explained everything that happened in full detail (minus the weed but I included the cigars) and he was ****ed. Not at me but at the cop for performing an illegal detention and an attempted illegal search. I made sure the cop was fined 300 dollars from his next paycheck or else I would have sued and I told the captain that.

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          • #6
            Oh oh oh...I know the answer...pick me, pick me, pick me!!!


            The story's bogus and it wasn't a lawyer and it never happened. So. What do I win?
            sigpic

            I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

            Comment


            • #7
              Where is Mitch in CT when you need him. Never a good lawyer around when you ned one!

              In my experience, it was always eaiser to deal with juris doctrorates because they didn't argue, they took notes, they understood the promise to apear was not a friggin admission (God, I hated explaining that).

              Never had an attorney fight a DWUI, ticket or anything else I handed him. The problem attorney's were the obnoxious defense attorneys ikn court, but eben they were fun to parlay with.

              Today, many good friends are lawyers I met on the job.
              The All New
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              (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



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              • #8
                Originally posted by mech
                I didn't have any specific type of lawyer in mind when I posted this thread. My friend found a story online, and it got me thinking about that question. The story:
                The story sounds like fiction to me. The "lawyer" in question didn't cite any precedents, case law, or 4th or 5th Amendment references, and they love to do that. A lawyer would also know that cops do a little better than 4th grade in the education department. Cops aren't "fined" for misconduct, and captains seldom respond as backup units.

                Most of the lawyers I have run into on stops have been polite and cooperative, because they know that doing otherwise is never going to help them in court. They might decline to have their car searched or to answer questions, but knowledgeable private citizens do that, too. I only know of one that routinely acts otherwise, but he does so intentionally so as to bait officers to do something he can sue them for. He sues other lawyers, too. As you might guess, he doesn't have a lot of friends.
                Tim Dees, now writing as a plain old forum member, his superpowers lost to an encounter with gold kryptonite.

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                • #9
                  Most of my confrontations with lawyers come during protests around the courthouse. Usually they are blinded to the actual law by the cause they are supporting. They try to intimidate the officers with their "legal knowledge" and standing as attorneys. I have athorough knowledge of NY's laws refarding such protests and usually step in once the attorney has spouted for a while. I usually get the "I'm an attorney" line and good laugh when my officers point out that I am too. That takes the wind out of their sails.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have cited several lawyers and arrested one or two. I have only had a problem with ONE person who was still in law school (I think). They just could not admit to themselves that they were speeding (70ish in a 50). They came to court prepared, smug and all high and mighty. They had me on the stand for about 30 minutes for a simple speeding ticket questioning if I knew where the manhole covers in the street I was working were located, asking how many tickets Ive written in my career, asking 50 questions about my Lidar, etc. When I didnt answer the way they wanted they became very agitated....it was actually pretty funny because they were trying to find loopholes in the Lidar manual and misenterpreted everything in the book. As soon as they concluded their questioning the judge gave them their guilty verdict. They were still waving their hands in the air and jaw dropped to the ground in disbelief that their BS was seen through by the judge. Sad thing was her boyfriend was a cop and was in court testifying as he was the passenger....never ID'd himself during the stop, but made sure to let the court know his profession.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There's no way that story happened. The Officer didn't need his consent or a search wx in that situation either...

                      I've only contacted two attorney's on traffic stops, and none on calls. One was a total jerk, the other was very cooperative and even submitted to SFST's.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Not a true story. Just some idiot making things up.
                        John 3:16

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mech
                          From what I've seen in videos, the vast majority of suspects have little or false understanding of law. I'm sure, however, there are times police confront real lawyers on the streets. Do you behave differently when dealing with lawyers?
                          No differently.
                          "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

                          "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

                          >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

                          Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

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                          • #14
                            Chances are, if you get into a contentious situation with a lawyer on the street, they're not going to tell you they're a lawyer. They're going to let you run your mouth (if you're predisposed to doing so) and make you look like an idiot later.

                            I don't know where cops come up with the generalization that lawyers in general are either dumb, or don't know as much as the cops about criminal law. It's a hell of a lot harder to get through 3 years of law school than 18 weeks of police academy.

                            And no matter how much time you spend in court, chances are, a trial lawyer has spent more time there.

                            On a per capita basis, I would bet that lawyers in general are a little bit brighter, and have more common sense than cops. I've met far more cops who were clueless when it came to 4th amendment law than lawyers.
                            Last edited by Frank Booth; 04-06-2007, 05:46 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Frank Booth
                              Chances are, if you get into a contentious situation with a lawyer on the street, they're not going to tell you they're a lawyer. They're going to let you run your mouth (if you're predisposed to doing so) and make you look like an idiot later.

                              I don't know where cops come up with the generalization that lawyers in general are either dumb, or don't know as much as the cops about criminal law. It's a hell of a lot harder to get through 3 years of law school than 18 weeks of police academy.

                              And no matter how much time you spend in court, chances are, a trial lawyer has spent more time there.

                              On a per capita basis, I would bet that lawyers in general are a little bit brighter, and have more common sense than cops. I've met far more cops who were clueless when it came to 4th amendment law than lawyers.
                              In general, your points have merit. But I personally got the idea that lawyers are dumb, and I daily confirm my theory that the better the school they went to the worse they are. Currently working a courthouse, the absolute stupidest lawyer I have ever seen were both Harvard grads. One should have been locked in a small room with nothing but a contract and a lightbulb. He had NO business in a courtroom. Number 3 dumbest was a Berkely grad. So sad.

                              I've got to wonder if the top schools don't focus on actual trial matters and case law. They sure don't focus much on constitutional issues from what I've seen.

                              Just last week a defense attorney for a juvenile sex crime was conducting a pre-trial. The suspected toddler-diddler was discovered by the victim's father who called the police.

                              The D.A. offerred the defense attorney free advice, put the kid out for a 730 (Calif Welfare&Institutions Code) hearing, which is a psych eval. It takes 4-6 weeks to get the reports from the shrink, and it will be necessary not too far down the road.

                              The defense attorney instead asked for a Pitchess motion What in God's name does the responding officer's disciplinary history have to do with this case, THE FATHER OF THE VICTIM DISCOVERED THE CRIME AND CALLED THE POLICE!!!

                              She just didn't get it...and still doesn't to this day.

                              That may be where someone like me, a Mensa member and someone who received two free full scholarships to law school, gets the idea that cops are often brighter than attorneys.

                              Things may be different in your part of the country, but most cops here get the whole reasonable-suspicion to probable cause thing. Most defense attorneys I've seen, don't. Ok, maybe not most. But around 50% don't get it.

                              YMMV,

                              EDJ
                              "It's a game of cat and mouse. It's a game of hide and seek. Albeit games with deadly consequences. Like most games-the better you know the rules, the more likely you are to win."

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