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  • Arming teachers?

    I am wondering what LEO's think about this topic, and how it would be implemented? Would the idea be that there would be a secure undisclosed location for the firearm/s, and then you'd train several staff on procedures in an active shooter scenario? This has to be the only logistical possibliity, correct? I can't imagine teachers openly carrying weapons in the classroom.

  • #2
    Originally posted by iconoclaste View Post
    I am wondering what LEO's think about this topic, and how it would be implemented?
    What cops think about this topic is as varied as the members of any other group. We have no idea how it would be implemented, the police won't have any say in the matter. We will, however, be blamed for any negative outcome.

    Would the idea be that there would be a secure undisclosed location for the firearm/s, and then you'd train several staff on procedures in an active shooter scenario?
    Yes, training would be needed, but keeping the weapons in a secure location won't work. When something bad happens, it happens right now. The trained teachers would have to go from their classroom to the secure location, obtain a weapon, then go to the threat location.

    This has to be the only logistical possibliity, correct?
    You're going to have to let go of the idea that "logic" will play a part in what comes of this (if anything)

    I can't imagine teachers openly carrying weapons in the classroom.
    It's going to be interesting, no question.

    You can trust just about every officer you work with to risk their life to save yours, but don't ever leave your lunch in the breakroom refrigerator.

    Comment


    • #3
      A number of school districts in Texas allow AND ENCOURAGE it.
      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

      Comment


      • #4
        North Carolina will probably be behind Connecticut, Illinois, and places like that in arming teachers. Honestly, out of all the teachers I had when I was in school, there would be about 3 or 4 that I could see carrying one, and they are either dead or retired now.

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        • #5
          A gun doesn’t stop a bad guy in a lock box or safe.
          Where'd you learn that, Cheech? Drug school?

          Comment


          • #6
            A teacher is teacher and a cop is a cop. Trying to crossbreed the two isn't going to work. I've heard arguments advocating for the deputization of teachers. Great, so we send them to an academy, train them, certify them (mind you, now they need to keep their LEO certification current which adds extra training on top of their already busy schedules), and give them guns and badges. Who is going to indemnify them if they shoot somebody? Do they have arrest authority? Where is their direct chain of command? What about if they get into a fight with a student and lose the gun? Are they going to be wearing duty holsters with the appropriate retention? How is that going to affect a classroom learning environment? Do the teachers even want that responsibility? If they do, are their backgrounds going to qualify them for the gig? There are hundreds of questions like these.

            It seems to me that you're either going to have to change the learning environment and install security measures and add more cops in schools or accept a new reality. I think departments and schools have to beef up their SRO programs, but it really comes down to money.

            Comment


            • #7
              If a teacher can certify with a handgun, and can complete any training mandated to carry in their classroom, it is a viable option for a last resort.
              I yell "PIKACHU" before I tase someone.

              Comment


              • #8
                The first problem that comes to my mind is identification when SHTF. 911 calls come in about an active shooter at the local school and everybody within earshot of a radio starts flying to the scene. You might have conflicting reports about number of shooters, appearance, location, or you might not have any information at all. When you drill everything down to the basics, every officer going in that building is thinking "bad guy has gun, bad guy is shooting people, must stop bad guy." The first person you see when you hit the building is the young, clean cut football coach who swings around toward you with his handgun at the sound of the door opening. Have we just eliminated the threat, or have we added to the casualties?

                Keep in mind, especially in rural areas, you will probably have officers coming in from other areas to assist. While you might know every teacher, administrator, and employee in your local schools, will the trooper or the deputy from the next county be able to say the same?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DepTroop View Post
                  A teacher is teacher and a cop is a cop. Trying to crossbreed the two isn't going to work.
                  Nonsense. These days, everyone complains that cops are incompetent at being cops, and teachers are incompetent at teaching kids, so let's send the cops into schools unarmed and make them teachers, then we arm all the teachers and make them cops.

                  That'll satisfy the all the complainers

                  After that, we could give all the pastry chefs pipe wrenches and make them work as plumbers. We could take roofers and make them airline pilots.
                  You can trust just about every officer you work with to risk their life to save yours, but don't ever leave your lunch in the breakroom refrigerator.

                  Comment


                  • DepTroop
                    DepTroop commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I like it. Maybe we take all the dopers and make them pharmacists too.

                  • Curt5811
                    Curt5811 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    With medical weed being so popular, that's literally happening.

                • #10
                  Originally posted by DepTroop View Post
                  A teacher is teacher and a cop is a cop. Trying to crossbreed the two isn't going to work. I've heard arguments advocating for the deputization of teachers. Great, so we send them to an academy, train them, certify them (mind you, now they need to keep their LEO certification current which adds extra training on top of their already busy schedules), and give them guns and badges. Who is going to indemnify them if they shoot somebody? Do they have arrest authority? Where is their direct chain of command? What about if they get into a fight with a student and lose the gun? Are they going to be wearing duty holsters with the appropriate retention? How is that going to affect a classroom learning environment? Do the teachers even want that responsibility? If they do, are their backgrounds going to qualify them for the gig? There are hundreds of questions like these.

                  It seems to me that you're either going to have to change the learning environment and install security measures and add more cops in schools or accept a new reality. I think departments and schools have to beef up their SRO programs, but it really comes down to money.

                  Originally posted by Curt5811 View Post

                  Nonsense. These days, everyone complains that cops are incompetent at being cops, and teachers are incompetent at teaching kids, so let's send the cops into schools unarmed and make them teachers, then we arm all the teachers and make them cops.

                  That'll satisfy the all the complainers

                  After that, we could give all the pastry chefs pipe wrenches and make them work as plumbers. We could take roofers and make them airline pilots.


                  Let me think for a second .............................is there a precedent for arming a NON LEO employee in order to protect a work place.

                  HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMm.

                  WAIT...................I think it is called the Federal Flight Deck Officers program

                  https://www.tsa.gov/news/releases/20...ficer-training
                  Last edited by Iowa #1603; 02-23-2018, 09:50 AM.
                  Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                  My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                  Comment


                  • Curt5811
                    Curt5811 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yes, I know of it... I was being facetious.

                • #11
                  Teachers have no more business carrying guns in class than cops have teaching algerbriac logarithms to DUI suspects.


                  My parents were public school teachers. The best man at my wedding is a school teacher. Other friends are teachers. I know teachers. There is a reason they became teachers and not cops. They are wired differently. They studied theatre, poetry, biology, history, and chemistry in college. No one that hires them asks about past drug use. Unlike commercial airplane pilots, the majority were never in the military.

                  They have enough demands. Ever try to keep an audience of eighth graders engaged and captivated for an hour? It's not easy. They do it all day, everyday. Expecting them (or 99% of them) to include 'succesfully engaging in an armed confrontation' as part of their job is not based in reality.

                  I also have kids in school. On the rare occasion I drop them off or pick them up (usually my better half takes care of this), I have to stop in at the front office and sign in. There are always people sitting around; principals, teachers, secretaries, aides, para-professionals, etc. Why isn't there also a retired or off-duty LEO, getting paid $20 an hour for one purpose: engage violence with violence, if God forbid it ever occurred.


                  Thousands of people have talent. I might as well congratulate you for having eyes in your head. The one and only thing that counts is: Do you have staying power?

                  -Sir Noel Coward

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Against it. Either use SRO's or, as some districts in my county do, hire retired officers as almost a reserve deputy. Plenty of retired cops, who have training that would love to keep working

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Suppose a school teacher has a CC license/permit for the jurisdiction they work in. State law allows them to carry OTJ. Said teacher regularly visits the range and even competes in IDPA or other types of competitions. Should this teacher be able to carry OTJ? Would this teacher be a better safety measure than your average beat cop who happens to be in the area when the SHTF?

                      As a parent of school aged children, I wish I lived in a place where a properly trained and qualified teacher could carry (very well concealed of course) to work. In reality, an active shooter situaiton will be nearly over if not over when the first LEO arrive on scene. Add to that the “learning curve” the responding officers will have to figure out the school grounds. Most teachers have a pretty good idea of the layout of their campus. Many will do whatever they can to protect the children. I have full confidence that my children’s teachers wold do the same if they chose to be armed (if it every becomes legal where I currently reside).

                      As for the folks saying identification of the active shooter will be a problem. I won’t go into tactics here, but I’ll leave you with this. When you respond to a MWAG call, how do you proceed? Same policy and procedures should apply to responding to an active shooter scenario.

                      I’ve done countless active shooter training sessions with various agencies in at least 5 different states. When officers are trained properly, they all work out very well. Training is the key. I sure wish more could be done to fund training where local agencies would be able to train in the various schools in their jurisdictions. This way, when a SHTF situation occurs, they’ll be better prepared and more familiar with the area.
                      Getting shot hurts! Don't under estimate the power of live ammo. A .22LR can kill you! I personally feel that it's best to avoid being shot by any caliber. Your vest may stop the bullet, but you'll still get a nice bruise or other injury to remember the experience.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post
                        Teachers have no more business carrying guns in class than cops have teaching algerbriac logarithms to DUI suspects.

                        My parents were public school teachers. The best man at my wedding is a school teacher. Other friends are teachers. I know teachers. There is a reason they became teachers and not cops. They are wired differently. They studied theatre, poetry, biology, history, and chemistry in college. No one that hires them asks about past drug use. Unlike commercial airplane pilots, the majority were never in the military.

                        They have enough demands. Ever try to keep an audience of eighth graders engaged and captivated for an hour? It's not easy. They do it all day, everyday. Expecting them (or 99% of them) to include 'succesfully engaging in an armed confrontation' as part of their job is not based in reality.

                        I also have kids in school. On the rare occasion I drop them off or pick them up (usually my better half takes care of this), I have to stop in at the front office and sign in. There are always people sitting around; principals, teachers, secretaries, aides, para-professionals, etc. Why isn't there also a retired or off-duty LEO, getting paid $20 an hour for one purpose: engage violence with violence, if God forbid it ever occurred.
                        Spot on. You said it better than I could.

                        There's another aspect to this thats been overlooked. Several of these active shooter incidents have occurred in high schools rather than grade schools. With that in mind, I think if we're forced to arm teachers, they will also need weapon retention training and security holsters. The average armed teacher are going be much more likely to have to fend off an agitated student that wants to take the gun away, than a Columbine or Parkland-style shooter.

                        You can trust just about every officer you work with to risk their life to save yours, but don't ever leave your lunch in the breakroom refrigerator.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          There is nothing in the discussion about it being mandated. It’s an option.
                          Now go home and get your shine box!

                          Comment

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