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Are Psychological assesments effective?

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  • Are Psychological assesments effective?

    From what I can only assume are seasoned veterans of the L.E profession I need some input. In your honest opinion are the Psych assessments given during the processing phases effective? If no, how can it be refined?

  • #2
    Originally posted by TUNEDNIMPORTED View Post
    From what I can only assume are seasoned veterans of the L.E profession I need some input. In your honest opinion are the Psych assessments given during the processing phases effective? If no, how can it be refined?
    Are they 100% effective?..................No
    Are they another tool in the box used when hiring ? ......Yes
    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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    • #3
      As Iowa #1603 said, they're not perfect.
      But they are usually pretty effective at keeping wanna-be cops like Jack Wagger from becoming real cops.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by not.in.MY.town View Post
        As Iowa #1603 said, they're not perfect.
        But they are usually pretty effective at keeping wanna-be cops like Jack Wagger from becoming real cops.
        uhoh

        Comment


        • #5
          Psych tests are supposed to identify personality types unsuited for LE but the tests are not perfect. I can think of one psychopath who was able to mask his dark nature during those tests and now is an absolute nightmare. His agency had no clue how to deal with him, so what'd they do?? Gave him a promotion! Funny how being a total head case can boost one's career, isn't it? Except now they are paying a great cost for someone who should've been weeded out at the beginning, but wasn't.

          I suppose those tests are useful in plucking the low hanging fruit- the ones who answer 'yes' to questions like "I sometimes think about hurting myself" or "I hear smells and see sounds", but for smarter kooks who know what the deal is... well, not so great.
          Whatever you are, be a good one.

          -Abraham Lincoln

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post
            Psych tests are supposed to identify personality types unsuited for LE but the tests are not perfect. I can think of one psychopath who was able to mask his dark nature during those tests and now is an absolute nightmare. His agency had no clue how to deal with him, so what'd they do?? Gave him a promotion! Funny how being a total head case can boost one's career, isn't it? Except now they are paying a great cost for someone who should've been weeded out at the beginning, but wasn't.

            I suppose those tests are useful in plucking the low hanging fruit- the ones who answer 'yes' to questions like "I sometimes think about hurting myself" or "I hear smells and see sounds", but for smarter kooks who know what the deal is... well, not so great.
            Its stuff like what you mentioned that really makes me wonder if they have any idea what they are doing.

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            • #7
              I'd have to put them in the category of "marginally effective." Yeah, they weed out the ones with devil horns popping out of their skulls, but higher IQ whack jobs are able to detect when the same question is phrased a different way....

              Here's been my experience: LE does attract a certain type of narcissist personality- someone who gets their rocks off by having control over people, enjoys the opportunity to belittle others, making sure their career is promoted at the cost of others, etc. They may not have much as far as ability and knowledge but they do bring ego and ambition, lots of it. The agency perceives this mix as an attribute and is willing to overlook the damage they cause, and instead sees them as hard-chargers who demand accountability. They get promoted and power, of course, tends to magnify negative personality traits, not remedy them. But- now get this- despite the trail of ashes these corporate psychos leave in their wake, upper management is loathe to address the problem. Why? Because first and foremost, the power structure looks to protect the power structure.

              It's befuddling why these types, with their inflated senses of self-worth and delusions of power, are not only protected but coddled by their agencies, despite the damage they cause. I can think of one case where numerous careers of subordinates were destroyed for no valid reason and hundreds of thousands of dollars were paid to make personnel actions go away but today he thrives, thanks to feckless upper management and a process that did not detect who they were actually hiring....
              Last edited by Ratatatat; 01-20-2018, 11:23 AM.
              Whatever you are, be a good one.

              -Abraham Lincoln

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post
                I'd have to put them in the category of "marginally effective." Yeah, they weed out the ones with devil horns popping out of their skulls, but higher IQ whack jobs are able to detect when the same question is phrased a different way....

                Here's been my experience: LE does attract a certain type of narcissist personality- someone who gets their rocks off by having control over people, enjoys the opportunity to belittle others, making sure their career is promoted at the cost of others, etc. They may not have much as far as ability and knowledge but they do bring ego and ambition, lots of it. The agency perceives this mix as an attribute and is willing to overlook the damage they cause, and instead sees them as hard-chargers who demand accountability. They get promoted and power, of course, tends to magnify negative personality traits, not remedy them. But- now get this- despite the trail of ashes these corporate psychos leave in their wake, upper management is loathe to address the problem. Why? Because first and foremost, the power structure looks to protect the power structure.

                It's befuddling why these types, with their inflated senses of self-worth and delusions of power, are not only protected but coddled by their agencies, despite the damage they cause. I can think of one case where numerous careers of subordinates were destroyed for no valid reason and hundreds of thousands of dollars were paid to make personnel actions go away but today he thrives, thanks to feckless upper management and a process that did not detect who they were actually hiring....
                it's probably easier for them to push it aside and not admit they hired a crazy person. I have no idea how someone like that would have gotten so far. Maybe some people lost the plot and turned it into a them thing. I will always see a career in L.E as the ultimate way to give back to a community...its not about me, it never has and never will be. Aside from this being an interest of mine everything I do is for someone else. If I feel this way the selflessness still has to be there..I hope.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You have asked for a simple answer to what is a complex question. If you really want to understand what the psych exam is all about, read this:

                  http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/...ing_Manual.pdf

                  Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post
                    Psych tests are supposed to identify personality types unsuited for LE but the tests are not perfect. I can think of one psychopath who was able to mask his dark nature during those tests and now is an absolute nightmare. His agency had no clue how to deal with him, so what'd they do?? Gave him a promotion!
                    Hmmmmmm maybe that is how I got promoted ?????
                    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TUNEDNIMPORTED View Post

                      Its stuff like what you mentioned that really makes me wonder if they have any idea what they are doing.
                      You see that is the big problem.....................You are someone who is totally unknowing about the process and trying to find a fail safe answer to questions that don't have any.

                      EVERYTHING in police work is dependent on PEOPLE, HUMAN BEINGS that can not be "slotted" in to either a square hole or a round hole....OR ANYTHING IN BETWEEN. People also change over time ESPECIALLY doing the job we do. If you look into the eyes of a dark hole every day you are going to see darkness............

                      For the most part the psych tool is another good tool IF USED CORRECTLY. It can be abused by not only the psychologist giving/interpreting the test but also by the administrators who give weight to the test in the hiring process.

                      Used correctly the written test followed up by a competent interview with the psychologist does a pretty good job.
                      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jack Wagger
                        There are a lot more lateral transfers with excellent backgrounds that fail the psych exam than recruits. (This isn't a fact just an anecdote) .
                        I hope you don't think that this is some "revelation" new to just you.

                        Law Enforcement administrators nationwide are aware of this and actually EXPECT most experienced officers to "fail" the written part of the psych exam.

                        The standard exam is designed for hires that are new to the field rather than the experienced officer who has seen and experienced things a new hire hasn't. The state , however, mandates that EVERYONE has to pass the same exam. Due to this........our state requires EVERYONE who doesn't pass the written exam to interview with a psychologist.

                        Our written state academy psychologists has to schedule an interview with nearly every officer trying to transfer to another agency. It usually lasts about 10 minutes and lo and behold they are now good to go. I personally know officers who have "failed" the exam 5 or more times and likewise, I know of no experienced officer who has struggled but did not pass the interview with the psychologist.

                        It's kind of like the old saying ..........................". You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps"
                        Last edited by Iowa #1603; 01-20-2018, 07:32 PM.
                        Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It is a tool to help weed out some of the ones who don't belong. It is only one part of the process and like every step of the way it is flawed. It will never be perfect. As of this point it is the best tool we have that will do what it does. The same could be said for the written test, the physical agility test, or the interview. All are parts of the process and they have their strengths and weaknesses.
                          In God We Trust
                          Everyone else we run local and NCIC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I thought the woman who did my psych eval needed a psych eval. She was nuts!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jack Wagger

                              In my opinion most of the hiring process is essentially useless. I think speaking with former employers, work history, Criminal records, speaking with family and driving history are the most important. Everything else is so subjective that it reeks of ulterior motives.
                              Because you have so much experience with hiring LEOs.
                              Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                              I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

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