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  • Perps reaching for a P.O.'s service weapon...

    3 Questions: 1) Have any of you ever had a situation where a perp tried to take your gun from you? 2) If so how did you deal with it? 3) Is shooting someone that tries to take your weapon from you within your police guidelines?

  • #2
    Originally posted by MiraiPO
    3 Questions: 1) Have any of you ever had a situation where a perp tried to take your gun from you? 2) If so how did you deal with it? 3) Is shooting someone that tries to take your weapon from you within your police guidelines?

    Yes and Yes.

    I was in a fight where it was 5 perps on 3 officers. My guy had his hands all over my holster. I took my flashlight, which was already in my hand, and struck him on his arm as hard as i could. That ended my fight. When your faced with a critical incident, you act. You do what it takes to stop the threat or you die or are seriously injured. Fortunately a good smack on the arm was all it took. In a life death struggle there comes a point where adrenaline may run out and you find yourself exhausted. Maybe the perp is 3x's yor size. Maybe you are by yourself and there is more than one perp present. If you get the opportunity, firing your weapon to stop the threat could be your only recourse available. There are so many variables we could go on all day. Its better to face a jury of 12 than to be carried out by 6.
    John 3:16

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    • #3
      Second someone tries to grab my holster and I get them off me, back my butt up, draw and pump a couple rounds in his chest as quick as possible. End of story.

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      • #4
        If a suspect attempts to take your pistol, that's a notice that he intends to use it on you. You therefore act accordingly.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MiraiPO
          3 Questions: 1) Have any of you ever had a situation where a perp tried to take your gun from you? 2) If so how did you deal with it? 3) Is shooting someone that tries to take your weapon from you within your police guidelines?
          As anyone who has been through an academy can probably tell you there is only one answer to question #3. IT DEPENDS. I got so tired of hearing that answer in the academy, but it rings so true that I find myself now using it a lot as an FTO. Is it a 7 year old kid on psych meds trying to take my weapon?? Is it a 90 year old 85lb senior citizen whos senile???? Answer is gonna be NO (and yes both of those have happened). Physically fit person(s) who can overpower me and there is no other safe option than to use deadly force...yes. Each situation is unique and it is hard to answer generic questions on use of force.

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          • #6
            as i was trained, anyone that touches my holster, the gun handle, or even unsnaps the holster, deadly force will be allowed. but like the above poster stated, it depends.

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            • #7
              Media will eat that up. Do you remember when that LA officer was on the ground with a perp and there was a buzz of officers beating the guy. It was a few months ago. Well the camera doesn't show the perp grabbing the officers weapon but does show the officer punching the crap out of him. Ill try to find that video and put a link on here. But all policies are out the window when it comes to someone reaching for the weapon. Big handme-down radios are good for situations like that.(make good wackers when need be).
              If he knocks your teeth out swallow them and hit back, never give up because an officer doesn't deserve to die on a dirty street.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by MiraiPO
                3 Questions: 1) Have any of you ever had a situation where a perp tried to take your gun from you? 2) If so how did you deal with it? 3) Is shooting someone that tries to take your weapon from you within your police guidelines?
                1. Yes

                2. I dislocated his wrist, fractured his elbow and ruined his weekend.

                3. Yes. Touch gun, go to jail. Try to take gun, you die.

                Any questions?
                The All New
                2013
                BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
                Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
                - M1Garand

                (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BlueLineBrad
                  Second someone tries to grab my holster and I get them off me, back my butt up, draw and pump a couple rounds in his chest as quick as possible. End of story.
                  Too simple no further than it goes. There's more to it.

                  Let's say that instead ... you get them off you, and that as you back up and start to draw said weapon, they also back up (away from you) and throw hands up and say "I submit".

                  Just because they were trying to take your weapon 10 seconds ago is scarcelty justification for a murder, which is what it would be then.

                  Now, if when you get them off of you and as are backing up, they come at you to try again, totally different answer. Then it's not murder. Totally different intent.

                  No, I'm not picking on BlueLineBrad, several answered with short answers simular to his, and I know how they all meant it, but some clearification of circumstances is needed to justify the "shoot their mangy & worthless butt" answer. At the moment intent to shoot is formed and acted upon, there needs to be a continuing threat to justify it.
                  "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

                  "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

                  >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

                  Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

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                  • #10
                    No I have not had someone try to take my gun. If someone attempts to grab it, they are raising the level of force to a deadly level. There actions are dictating the level of force that is justified. If someone is grabbing for your gun, they are communicating that they intend to use deadly force on you. If I can gain some distance and the threat stops immediately and goes to ground compliantly, the confrontation shouldn't still be a deadly force level. If they continue to advance or grab for the gun again or won't let go, then I wouldn't hesitate to use deadly force.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by t150vsuptpr
                      Too simple no further than it goes. There's more to it.

                      Let's say that instead ... you get them off you, and that as you back up and start to draw said weapon, they also back up (away from you) and throw hands up and say "I submit".
                      Well they better damn say it quickly before they meet a wall of lead. Deadly force situations happens in mere seconds and sometimes less than a second, im not gonna stand there and play 20 questions. If the media and special interest tards wanna sit back in their chairs and spend a month talking about a decision i had to make in under a second then thats their problem, im going home one way or another, i dont play these damn games.

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                      • #12
                        Well, they touch my gun, they will touch the ground, hard... they unsnap the it, or push down the top (depending which holster i have on) then they have a high probability to be shot, and possibly killed, i would have to do it, but i would ot save my life.... I GO HOME... if they do touch it, after they hit the ground, i get up break leather and wait for cover... this is a good quote to think about
                        "I have a real simple solution for gun retention, him, on the floor, unconscious for trying to get my gun." Marc MacYoung
                        Last edited by BikeCop501; 04-01-2007, 11:26 PM.
                        Why do we try so Hard for Little things, and so Little for Hard things?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by t150vsuptpr
                          Too simple no further than it goes. There's more to it.

                          Let's say that instead ... you get them off you, and that as you back up and start to draw said weapon, they also back up (away from you) and throw hands up and say "I submit".

                          Just because they were trying to take your weapon 10 seconds ago is scarcelty justification for a murder, which is what it would be then.

                          Now, if when you get them off of you and as are backing up, they come at you to try again, totally different answer. Then it's not murder. Totally different intent.

                          No, I'm not picking on BlueLineBrad, several answered with short answers simular to his, and I know how they all meant it, but some clearification of circumstances is needed to justify the "shoot their mangy & worthless butt" answer. At the moment intent to shoot is formed and acted upon, there needs to be a continuing threat to justify it.
                          As usual, T150, you're the thinker here. Your caviat is well put, again, as usual.
                          The All New
                          2013
                          BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
                          Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
                          - M1Garand

                          (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



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                          • #14
                            Attempting to take a Police Officer's weapon is a deadly force situation. Respond accordingly.
                            J. Wise

                            AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

                            "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

                            Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MiraiPO
                              3 Questions: 1) Have any of you ever had a situation where a perp tried to take your gun from you? 2) If so how did you deal with it? 3) Is shooting someone that tries to take your weapon from you within your police guidelines?
                              Yes, we were fighting this guy and he reached down and started to pull on the grip of my gun. I had a triple-retention (Safariland) holster so it wasn't going anywhere. I capped his hand on the grip. I considered drawing and screwing my back-up gun into his belly button and pulling the trigger, but realized my partner was directely behind the turd. What if my round went through the turd and hit my partner?

                              Confident my triple-retention holster would do its job, I released my hand from his and proceeded to punch him in rthe face, several times, until he decided my gun wasn't going anywhere and he ought to protect his mug. Then, my partner applied the upper body control-hold and started to render him senseless. Out of 9000 cops making thousands of arrests, there were two upper-body control holds used that year. We were one of them.

                              Yes, shooting someone trying to take my gun is within my department's guidelines.
                              "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

                              Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

                              Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

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