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  • #16
    Michigan just ruled to over turn affirmative action in our last election!!!!!!! (see prop 2) Lets how long this last.
    Last edited by timoty007; 11-14-2006, 08:55 AM.

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    • #17
      There's something else everyone forgets about affirmative action. It was never intended to discriminate, or give preference in hiring based on gender or race. Instead, it was intended to achieve ethnic and gender parity in the work force by level the playing field in hiring. What that meant was:

      1. Tests had to be validated to show that the questions they posed were asked of everyone and had a legitimate relationship to the job in question. But in no case were testing or hiring standards to be lowered.

      2. Recruitment efforts (advertising, job fairs, etc) would be more heavily targeted towards members of underrepresented groups.

      3. Efforts would be made to recruit qualified candidates from underrepresented groups who were already working in the profession for other employers, or successfully training for the jobs in school.

      4. Government employers would identify why most people failed their exams and then provide remedial training to whoever wanted it (irrespective of gender or race) so they could better compete in the next exam. For example, most people who fail the State of California written exam for Officer Services Supervisor do so because they are short on accounting skills. Accordingly, remedial training in basic accounting should be made available to candidates signed up for that test.

      5. Quotas or specific preferences based on gender or ethnicity were only allowed to remedy specific, proven cases of discrimination and not just vague allegations. For example, until the early 1970s, the State of California had a written policy refusing to appoint females to any of its peace officer jobs due to the "inherently dangerous nature of the position." In that case, giving preference to females was authorized to remedy proven gender discrimination.

      The problem is, many people from underrepresented groups do not hold the police in high regard and thus, do not want to become cops. In turn, this tends to thwart affirmative action goals and frustrate EEO managers, causing them want to bend the rules (or create new, unwritten rules that are totally contrary to affirmative action policy) so they don't look like failures in administering their programs.

      There is also another problem (at least in California) that most people overlook. The pay and benefits for state jobs here are comparable to the average pay and benefits for similar, private sector jobs throughout California. But the key word here is "average" and that's where the problem rests. Most state jobs are concentrated in big cities such as Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, San Francisco, etc., where the cost of living is high and private employers and local governments routinely pay more than the state. For example, I know of top pay step Lieutenants in state law enforcement agencies in Los Angeles, who make no more than top step LAPD patrol officers. As a result, few people want to be a state employee in a big city because it pays so little. In turn, many (but not all) of the people who test for the state tend to be rejects from local government agencies. Because of this, I watched one state law enforcement agency eliminate weighted written and oral exams and go to a simple pass/fail oral, and desperately lower its BI standards, just to get bodies. Even then, it was woefully understaffed. The point here is that unless your department offers competitive pay and benefits when compared to other agencies in your community, you will never achieve an affirmative action program's ethnic or gender parity goals because no qualified candidate will be stupid enough to want to work for you when they can make more money doing the same job for another, nearby agency.
      Last edited by L-1; 11-14-2006, 04:31 PM.
      Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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      • #18
        thanks for the informative replies, our class was divided on the question at hand, but we did agree upon one thing, at the end of the day the people who are hired based upon affirmative action better be able to preform the necessary tasks involved in safe and effective policing.
        You can trust the Government - just ask the Indians.

        Islam is a religion based on peace and tolerence, click here if you disagree.

        "In Allah we trust, all others are suspects."

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