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  • Getting rid of Small town PDs and Expanding..

    So today in my police science class we were comparing Britain's PD with the system here in the US. We were talking about how England has only 5 police departments that cover England in its entirety and how the US still uses small town police departments that cover well, small towns! Anyhow I was thinking and it hit me.... I think we should adapt Englands Model and get rid of all these small town police departments with their small jurisdictional boundaries and make every cop in a given state a state trooper...

    Think about it, if every cop in a state was a trooper you wouldnt have to worry about cops leaving for better paying departments cause there would only be one agency and the salary would be the same statewide, also they would have police power all over that state so no more backing off of pursuits just because a perp crosses a border line between two towns... Recruitment problems would also be solved.

    Overall I think this would increase the effectiveness of the police because everything would be linked, and communication would be much stronger, funding would also be simpler because it would go straight to one agency.

    So my question to you guys is how do you feel about this? Do you think that our current Policing system would become more efficient if we dropped the small town departments and made one agency statewide which would be the state police.

    p.s. no silly answers like "I dont wanna wear those goofy hats"...

  • #2
    There is something to be said about large entities in the line of funding, training, and standards.

    But it's obvious you've never worked within a bureaucracy.

    There are also many good things to be said about working within a small department without communication barriers, and the sense of getting lost within your own ranks.
    "Get this and get it straight! Crime is a sucker's road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter, the prison, or the grave. There's no other end. They never learn."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ejay
      There is something to be said about large entities in the line of funding, training, and standards.

      But it's obvious you've never worked within a bureaucracy.

      There are also many good things to be said about working within a small department without communication barriers, and the sense of getting lost within your own ranks.

      Well said- I concur. I realize we need more officers, but that problem will never go away. I don't think the solution is consolidating all of the small agencies.

      Comment


      • #4
        sorry guys I just wanted to clarify one minor thing, by small town PDs I didnt necesarily just mean small town police depts. I meant every single agency in the state. I'll use New York State as an example, there are tons of agencies that work within this state such as the NYPD, Nassau PD, Suffolk PD, Westchester PD... so on and so fourth, here are the top salaries for these forementioned Depts NYPD - $59,588, Nassau PD - roughly $93,000, Suffolk PD - $ 97,000, Westchester PD - roughly $82,000...

        Guess who has the highest crime rates and the toughest time recruiting? Guess who recieves the lowest funding? yeah doesent take a rockest scientist to know its the NYPD... and guess what department gets 1,500 applicants PER ACADEMY SEAT!? yeah its Suffolk and Nassau.. as opposed to the NYPD that only gets 20 applicants per academy seat.

        now what if instead of having an NYPD, Nassau PD, Suffolk PD, and Westchester PD... we took em all and made them into one single agency? and took the pay and averaged it out, or took the pay scale of the highest agency (which I doubt would happen)... Dont ya think recruting issues would be resolved? Wouldn't funding be more equally distributed?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ejay
          There is something to be said about large entities in the line of funding, training, and standards.

          But it's obvious you've never worked within a bureaucracy.

          There are also many good things to be said about working within a small department without communication barriers, and the sense of getting lost within your own ranks.

          first off it would'nt just be a large entity, it would be the state police with the same standards it has now which, from what Ive seen are higher than any individual local agency. Just think of it this way... You would still be working in the same place you are now as a P.O. the only difference is now you would wear the same uniform as every other P.O. in the state, you would have the same exact powers as any other P.O. in the state, your pay would be the same, and your training and duties would be boosted to the state level.... this solves alot of problems if you look at it from a logical standpoint and not through the eyes of some ****** bureaucrat who thinks that keeping traditional methods is more important than moving on to newer more effective ones...

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          • #6
            I disagree.

            Ask someone who works for a metro pd.

            It would not be the same environment as I am in now. My boss would have more bosses so I couldn't count on him to take care of things as they would be out of his hands.

            As for a lack of applicants. That is not only due to pay. Reputation and working environment have a lot to do with it. (see LAPD recruiting thread)


            State run, is state run. Even if your local, you would still be under the thumb of the state. Example: Oregon regional communications buildings climate control is controlled from state headquarters and can not be adjusted from the building itself. Under thumb.


            If these methods were more effective and practical, they would already be in place. I stick by my original post.

            Sounds like your instructor is trying to sell your class the theory. Armchair quarterback imo because I don't think it would be a practical practice in the states.
            "Get this and get it straight! Crime is a sucker's road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter, the prison, or the grave. There's no other end. They never learn."

            Comment


            • #7
              And in your police science class did they mention how here in the states many "Small town officers" are deputized and given county and state-wide jurisdiction?

              No? So much for an education...
              You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ejay
                There is something to be said about large entities in the line of funding, training, and standards.

                But it's obvious you've never worked within a bureaucracy.

                There are also many good things to be said about working within a small department without communication barriers, and the sense of getting lost within your own ranks.
                Agreed about a million percent. Seriously. I left a very large agency and came to the very small agency I'm in now. Did I take a pay cut? Yes. But in return, I got a lower cost of living, and a lot less stress. I know everyone in my town, and they know me. As far as the turds go, well, let's just say that I get my fair share of repeat customers. Plus all the meth traffic that comes through the county from Texas on it's way north, it's still exciting at times.

                There are some negatives though. Like I said before, everyone knows me. If I have a "friend" over, I will get asked "Hey, who's car was that we saw in your driveway last night?" There's alot to be said for small town policing.

                That being said, after the elections in November, if the guy I'm supporting wins the election for Sheriff, I will most likely make the move to the County. Kind of a happy medium between the huge agency I was at and the tiny one I'm at now.
                BR

                Fresh Cope, It Satisfies, Since 1822

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sounds like a good idea, but it would never work in a state like Nebraska. In the last 6 months there has been talk of the state forcing several small counties to merge. Once this hit the newspaper several people complained to their state reps. People complained that rather then going down to their local county office, sheriff's office, or post office they would have to drive out of their way. The state said it would save counties thousands of dollars by closing buildings, but small town people love their small town services. I'm sure it's the same way all over the country convenience over dollars.
                  Some people were just dropped on their heads as children more than the rest of us!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A big thing about consolidating LE at the state level is: some officer's get screwed. One way is in terms of pay and assignment.

                    If you have a uniformed pay scale with no modification, then you have people out in the boondocks making a killing (because of the low cost of living) whereas officers assigned to areas with higher costs of living would struggle.

                    The would mean more officers trying to transfer out of the built up areas into the rural areas so they could have a good standard of living. That leaves alot of less experianced officers in high crime built up areas....

                    If the consolidate agency adjusts pay according to local cost of living (say if you work in a high cost area you get 7% more pay, or something like that), then the reverse is true, you'd have people waiting in line to transfer in to the cities, getting out of the rural areas as soon as they could.

                    And then their is the problem you'd have if your "sector" was at full strenght. With seperate PDs, you can find a job close to where you work. With a consolidated "everyone is a state cop" agency, they might not need more officers right now where you live, you'd have to eitehr drive real far to work everyday, or relocate. This is one aspect that keeps some people from even trying to get on with current state police, they don't know where they will be assigned.

                    when your department covers the whole state, the "needs of the department" could have you in the other side of nowhere.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      because the city that hires its officers knows those officers will be in town patroling. not off out in the country somewhere hiding. if i had statewide jurisdiction id be somewhere all the time. its easy to get into a grass is greener mentality and be somewhere way off. now then they could have assigned patrol areas but state couldnt afford to pAy every officer needed 40k a year. thats why some towns pay 60k and some 15k.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HCSO511
                        because the city that hires its officers knows those officers will be in town patroling. not off out in the country somewhere hiding. if i had statewide jurisdiction id be somewhere all the time. its easy to get into a grass is greener mentality and be somewhere way off. now then they could have assigned patrol areas but state couldnt afford to pAy every officer needed 40k a year. thats why some towns pay 60k and some 15k.
                        Agreed.Also MiraiPO makes the assumption that all state PDs standards are higher than their small town counterparts- wrong! CA. standards are high ,no matter what agency you work for ,and an LAPD officer could easily work for say a BART PD or San Jose PD,or the CHP and Vice versa.Plus many sate PDs are highway regulatory and traffic enforcement agencies only-here in CA. the CHP only gets involved in municipal policing in smaller towns and remote areas.Plus- put that State agency in charge ,and the resources,sooner or later will go to where the crime is most visible, stripping the smaller areas of the services they are used to.Many Small town Depts have a PD to serve their communities needs, and often want to protect their cities from a certain type of liability.In many states,it it is the county,not the State,which is responsible for police services and public safety,so the Sheriff-particularly in the Southern and Western states,would be expected(obligated) to patrol the cities,not the state police.........
                        "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I actually agree with consolidation, but not all the way to the state. My county has more than 40 agencies in it, and we don't even have a million people in the county. The largest department only has 700 officers and the smallest is actually a part time department and has 10, I believe. The duplication in services for some things like ESU(what SWAT/Emrgency Services/TAC is n most departments) is rediculous, and yet we have NO full time helicopter, NO full time Harbor units, NO full time SCUBA, etc. If the county was to get off of its butt and push for some type of consolidation it would benefit the entire county, but as of now everyone wants 'its own village officers patrolling, since they know the area so well', and will never go for it. Too bad, the benefits far outweigh the loses. As of right now if a LARGE scale incident were to happen in a 20 member police jurisdiction, they would have to wait for the supervisor to get on scene, contact the watch commander who would have to call his commander who would have to contact the chief who would have to contact the commissioner who has to contact the mayor or town supervisor who THEN can ask the county police to start asking for mutual aid. That endangers the lives of the officers on scene. IF they had the ability to just ask for another 50 of their own officers to respond instead of asking 9 different agencies to find a total of 50 people, it would make so much more sense.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SWH
                            I actually agree with consolidation, but not all the way to the state. My county has more than 40 agencies in it, and we don't even have a million people in the county. The largest department only has 700 officers and the smallest is actually a part time department and has 10, I believe. The duplication in services for some things like ESU(what SWAT/Emrgency Services/TAC is n most departments) is rediculous, and yet we have NO full time helicopter, NO full time Harbor units, NO full time SCUBA, etc. If the county was to get off of its butt and push for some type of consolidation it would benefit the entire county, but as of now everyone wants 'its own village officers patrolling, since they know the area so well', and will never go for it. Too bad, the benefits far outweigh the loses. As of right now if a LARGE scale incident were to happen in a 20 member police jurisdiction, they would have to wait for the supervisor to get on scene, contact the watch commander who would have to call his commander who would have to contact the chief who would have to contact the commissioner who has to contact the mayor or town supervisor who THEN can ask the county police to start asking for mutual aid. That endangers the lives of the officers on scene. IF they had the ability to just ask for another 50 of their own officers to respond instead of asking 9 different agencies to find a total of 50 people, it would make so much more sense.

                            oklahoma has that same problem. we have so many agency's working each county its stupid. the entire highway patrol in this state is useless. write speeding tickets and work crashes. if the state would cut them off and put working wrecks on the sheriff's office's and funnel the money into adding 10 deputies to each s.o. it would be an awesome asset and save the state money. not to say the highway patrol isnt a very respectable agency and they do good work at what they do but i gotta go sit on the wreck till he clears it anyway. why send all of us when 1 agency can work it.
                            if you dont have enough strife on the job yet wait till the city council offers their two cents worth

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MiraiPO
                              p.s. no silly answers like "I dont wanna wear those goofy hats"...
                              But I don't want to wear those goofy hats!!

                              Large does not always mean better...and State Police agencies don't necessarily have higher standards. My agency has much greater education and training requirements than the State Police....
                              Two good things to remember while you are in school..
                              "Don't make assumptions!"
                              "Instructors can be very biased."
                              "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" -George Orwell

                              "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing diapers." - Blues Brothers

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