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  • Badgerland
    replied
    One more thing. Kudos to bjc91127 for a well-written post. You stated your side of the story without attacking the officer or making rash generalizations. Other visitors here could learn something from you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Badgerland
    replied
    Originally posted by sflcop
    Those of you that know me know that I will never slam another LEO on here, but I do not know what this guy was thinking. Now, there could be more to the story that what was told... but taking it as it is... dispatch and the officer could have run by name and DOB in the state where you were from. Why did he not let you call your parents to get your license number, if he was just going to take your word for it? With that being said, IF he did decide to arrest you for that... (I would have just cited you and made someone else drive the car, before I would tow it) the arrest was done properly.

    I agree 100%. If bjc91127 had a valid DL, just not on him, why not do a little more work? Why not check for other forms of ID? College ID, credit card, social security card? When a valid driver license status returns, do some more work... Match up physical descriptors. Ask bjc91127 what was on his driving record and criminal history and see if the printouts match.

    If all else fails, do the horoscope test. Ask bjc91127 what his sign is. 95% of the population know their own gemini sign, but if they are using their brother's name, they won't know what the gemini sign for April 16th is. I keep a gemini cheat sheet on the back of my notebook.

    If this stop was made in Wisconsin, the fine would be $104.00. However, the citation would be immediately dismissed if they show the judge or issuing police department their license at a later date.

    To me, it looks like the arresting officer wasted 2+ hours of his time on a minor infraction.


    Originally posted by WISCONSIN STATE STATUTES
    343.18 License to be carried; verification of signature.

    343.18(1)
    (1) Every licensee shall have his or her license document, including any special restrictions cards issued under s. 343.10 (7) (d) or 343.17 (4), in his or her immediate possession at all times when operating a motor vehicle and shall display the same upon demand from any judge, justice or traffic officer.

    343.18(1m)
    (1m) A person charged with violating sub. (1) may not be convicted if he or she produces in court or in the office of the arresting officer a license theretofore issued to the licensee and valid at the time of his or her arrest.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stare
    replied
    I find this interesting. In MD. you cannot be arrested for "failing to display license" or "driving w/o a license" as both are only finable offenses. So if the person says he doesnt have his license and you run him and it comes back to a legitimate height and weight all you can do is tow and ticket. Even if you have a funny feeling he isnt who he says he is all you have him on is traffic at that point and its not an arrestable offense. At least in MD.

    Leave a comment:


  • PeteBroccolo
    replied
    I have been doing this work for 30 years now, the last 5 on a dedicated traffic unit. We can check Saskatchewan DLN information quickly through our central dispatch; with our MWS, or again via central dispatch, we can check out most other Provinces's DLN information fairly quickly either automatically or through the other Provinces' central dispatch. I have even checked USA residents' DLN through their home states' DLN information system via ACUPIES and our central dispatch.

    We do have authority to arrest here for "No Valid DLN", and could impound the vehicle, but we have no authority to fingerprint and hold for bail, as such an offence is not serious enough for such action here. The vehicle would be releasable as soon as a person with a valid DLN takes custody of same AND the operator pays the tow and storage costs.

    I guess you do what is proper in the jurisdiction which you are in, both from a civilian's and an investigator's point of view.

    Leave a comment:


  • miked6
    replied
    I run folks by name and date of birth all the time, but I am careful to verfiy address, height, weight, etc. If it is doesn't feel right I move forward, otherwise I cut out. If the registration comes back to the same name and info seems to match with negative HITS I am ok with it.

    If the tag is different, I might ask to search the vehicle or the person just to see if I can find anything. I have been known to have dispatch call the owner of the vehicle and ask who is driving it right now. There are alot of little tricks to get to the bottom of things. That is what seperates intelligent well trained cops with discretion from mindless policy robots.

    If they are cooperative and everything seems ok, it is a see you later situation. It sounds as though the officer did what he was legally allowed, but did not bother to use the tools that were at his disposal to difuse a relatively minor situation without incident.

    Leave a comment:


  • sflcop
    replied
    Those of you that know me know that I will never slam another LEO on here, but I do not know what this guy was thinking. Now, there could be more to the story that what was told... but taking it as it is... dispatch and the officer could have run by name and DOB in the state where you were from. Why did he not let you call your parents to get your license number, if he was just going to take your word for it? With that being said, IF he did decide to arrest you for that... (I would have just cited you and made someone else drive the car, before I would tow it) the arrest was done properly.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilipCal
    replied
    Proving your identity.

    I wasn't there, I don't know all the details. My usual practice in similiar circumstances was to issue a citation for operating w/o license in possession.That said, there may have been some very valid reasons for a custodial arrest.

    Leave a comment:


  • t150vsuptpr
    replied
    Oh, make no mistake, if the officer had a real question as to bjc91127's identity, he did the right thing.

    My point was, and I still wonder, why he didn't ask for name and DOB as it appears on the DL, and while waiting for return, get bjc91127 to write out his address and a tele number and the SOC again, and also go ahead and record weight and other descriptors.

    Inquire a little and then have the dispatcher do a google seach on address, compare any returned DL confirmmations with the info given, and ... ask for any and everything that might have his supposed name on it, ask to see it. Things like doctors appointment cards, credit cards, association cards, etc...

    I have had people just hand me a wallet and tell me to look at the stuff (they there with me) after I explain that before I can let them go, I have to be sure of identity.

    If they don't have anything, if everything is in his "brother's name" or "cousin's name" .... I'm hooking them up too.

    I don't have hardly anything with other names on it in my wallet unless it's a buisness card or tele number lists. It would be unusual for you all to have other people's stuff in your wallet to the exclusion of your own stuff as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • RBrodowski
    replied
    Last guy who ran from me did the same thing you did. "I don't have my license on me." I run my name and DOB through the state he said his license was from....well I got a wierd return (Louisiana) from a different guy all together with a totally different birthday instead of the "not on file" we usually get if someone is lying. So I thought there was a glitch in the system and we were waiting for his "cousin" to go get his license from his house. By this time he was not cuffed and we were standing around just making small talk. My Sergeant gets there and asks how old this guy is and he says "18." He told me he was born in 1982....I was born in 1982 and I'm definatly not 18. When I went to go lay hands on him, he ran. (we did get him...probation violation warrant and no license under his real name)

    That's why the cop cuffed you, searched you, and took you down to proove your identity. Not every agency runs names through NCIC the same...some need just your name and DOB and others need an OLN. Tough luck, it sucks it happened, but get over it and get on with your life.

    Leave a comment:


  • lexcoptk
    replied
    Originally posted by KY PO
    I am mildly curious to know why the guy didn't run the plates and match that information to whatever the driver was saying...from there they should have gotten a name and seen if they had any warrants.
    I run into people all the time who have their cars registered in their parents or spouses name, so the person driving is not always the owner of the car.

    Also I run OLN information all the time by SSN, however if I don't get a match I always run it again by Name and DOB. But it sounds to me like this officer did things by the book.

    Leave a comment:


  • hmm
    replied
    Defense of the officer.

    One, we do not know what they did and did not do. The person would only know what they have been told.

    Two, if you do not know whom you have and think the person may have a warrant you take it further.

    Three, the officer did it by the book.

    Last, no good deed goes unpunished. Officer lets the person go with a ticket and something comes up later, now the officer has troubles.

    Leave a comment:


  • LeeRoy
    replied
    bjc91127,

    Strict law enforcement sends a strict message. Having heard this how many of us will drive in VA without your DL in possession now?

    How could this be handled better? If the officer had been able to pull up bjc91127's driver's license photo up on his MDT would an arrest be necessary? I think technology is going to continue to change how we do our jobs in the future. The technology already exists. Money just needs to be spent to spread out the tech to the cops.

    I am a traffic cop and I go a lot farther than the officer in the story did before I'll hook a violator for not having identification. If I see signs of deception I hook a lot quicker though.

    Leave a comment:


  • KY PO
    replied
    Originally posted by Tennsix
    True.... But who is to say (without ID) the driver was who he claimed to be.

    If you run the 47 on the guy and he tells you the same name....odds are he is either the guy or knows the guy....that narrows it down from he stole the car from someplace. Now it's true he could have stolen the car from someone he knows.....but you run his name and DOB through NCIC and get back that he has a license....not to mention the guy should have had something in his wallet with his name on it even if there was no picture. I think I would take all that as good enough, before I'd haul him in to jail. But, don't mind me, I don't do traffic. I'm not really questioning the officers actions because it isn't my place, I just found this post to be interesting and wanted to ask about it a bit.

    Leave a comment:


  • t150vsuptpr
    replied
    It's too easy to simply run the 10-27 by Name / DOB, in every state. We can run a Va driver by SOC, even if they have taken the wise step and had a number other than SOC put onthe face of the license called a "customer number". So on Va drivers, I can run it those three ways, and any other state can be done Name / DOB.

    To stop looking for validation after failing to get a reply on only a SOC number, to then arrest driver, cuff him, tow vehicle, and then take him to the magistrate and lockup (which he's bound to do after the cuffing) seems like a bit of an exercise in futility when a valid OL would have come up with the Name / DOB.

    At worst, it is a "No OL in Posession" charge here if valid, even if not carrying, they can then drive, and the law even provides that it may be complied with law, no fine, no costs.

    [QUOTE] [URL=http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-104] [B]

    Leave a comment:


  • Tennsix
    replied
    Originally posted by KY PO
    I am mildly curious to know why the guy didn't run the plates and match that information to whatever the driver was saying...from there they should have gotten a name and seen if they had any warrants.
    True.... But who is to say (without ID) the driver was who he claimed to be.

    Leave a comment:

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