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  • the one bad day

    This will take some following.

    The Opata academy has a block of instruction on felony traffic stop procedure, 2 students act as officers who are on a felony traffic stop. They use between 3-6 other students to role play as "bad guys" in a car , who are stopped by the 2 student officers. The officers are to pull the car over and one gives instructions over the PA, while the other cuffs the suspects and puts them in the back of the cruiser. There are also 2 students role playing "perimeter officers just standing behind cars at the far end of the lot in case the suspects attempt to run"

    Our scenario ..

    We pull the car over Im acting as primary officer, friend J is backup officer, I give the commands to get out of the car to the felons, first one gets out, and is cuffed, as im ordering the 2nd one out, an instructor told several students who were watching, to head out into the area, and role play an angry mob of bystanders who "dont want to see their friend taken to jail" . So 4 other students start to advance on us as were trying to cuff the 2nd suspect who is acting non compliant and hes a big guy. Now one of the other students playing a bystander , has another student distract one of the perimeter officers, gets the perimeter officer to chase him, while the student STEALS the perimeter officers police car she was using for cover and drives it all around the parking lot. From then on it was chaos. We got original suspect 2 cuffed, and ordered the other bystanders to the ground at gunpoint. the student who took the police car, drove up to us in it, and was stopped, I noticed a gun tucked in his wasteband, so i shot him with the simulated gun thru the drivers side window. (he was in a police car, with a shotgun , and has a gun in his wasteband) . Needless to say, the instructors were ****ed at everyone. And said my partner and i ****ed it all up. .... Well it was a ****ed up scenario. nobody else got anything even remotley close to this scenario.

    So now , when a prospective employer calls, the commander (who wasnt even there) just heard the story 2nd hand ... tells them "he's a good smart guy, studied hard, but i wouldnt hire him "he Schized out" on felony traffic stops"

    Like i said. Im finished trying to apply,. this is bull****. its a good old boys club. ask anyone who knows. My wife and I are going to move to florida, get a small condo. Get outta cleveland. away from ohio , where the Governer has a criminal record.
    Last edited by AUXOFC74; 09-28-2005, 07:08 AM.

  • #2
    Maybe I missed something, but:

    "I noticed a gun tucked in his wasteband, so i shot him with the simulated gun thru the drivers side window. (he was in a police car, with a shotgun , and has a gun in his wasteband)"

    The suspect didn't have the gun pointed at you and you shot him?

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    • #3
      The reason i noticed it was because he was reaching for it so i shot him . Tell me that in real life a suspect driving a stolen police car at you then stops in front of you is not making a case to get shot. Admittedly my one bad day. thats why we go to academy, to learn . It really should not matter, he broke his role, and took it upon himself to steal a police car. He got his *** screamed at. but we took the worst of it. And btw. the car stealing officer , was fired on his 3rd day of the dept that hired him .
      Last edited by AUXOFC74; 09-28-2005, 07:58 AM.

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      • #4
        What happened to your partner?

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        • #5
          He has not even applied for a job... He doesnt want to be a police officer anymore. I just spoke to him this morning

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          • #6
            Im sorry that your having bad luck up in Cleveland. If you were down in Cincinnati, I'd try to help you out. I teach in several OPOTA academies down here and I can tell you that we don't use "recruits" as role players. The reason is simple, They haven't "been there done that." When you have recruits act as bad guys, they tend to become immature and do stupid stuff! As far as your scenerio goes, I sorta breezed thru it, but I think I caught the jist of it! I wouldn't worry to much about screwing up on a traffic stop scenerio in the academy. We see all types of stuff while teaching in the academy, thats why we have an academy w/ role playing scenerios. I'd rather you make the mistake in the academy and learn from it, rather than go out on the street and make a mistake. The whole reason that you do the scenerios is so you learn from it, and your instructor should realize that!

            I can tell you that the majority of your "evaluation" from the academy is going to come from the tests and what type of a role model you are while atttending the academy. Ive had to give several references to background investigators, and out of all the remarks Ive given, Ive never judged the person by how well they did on a traffic stop scenerio. Its the overall impression that I refer too.

            Don't think that this is isolated to just Ohio. There are alot of states that have zero training in the academy and its just as "boot-legged." My advice, find a department that has there own full-time academy staff, i.e: columbus, cincinnati, dayton, State patrol. That way you'll get what your looking for, because that's all they do!!

            Good luck, let me know if you need anymore help!!
            ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS, DON'T BLAME OTHERS!!!

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            • #7
              Well if such were the case.. i scored over 90 % on every single test , quiz, and the like, had perfect attendance . Apparantly they are not telling them that. My crime scene investigation scored 94% , and my traffic crash investigations , and ADAP were flawless, no re attempts. Cleveland sucks .. we are outta here.

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              • #8
                we had instructors role play at ours, and they set it up, so that 4 out of 5 scenes, you die, just to make a point, but they didnt act like idiots, just made a point. it was an eye opener. everybody died several times,

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                • #9
                  Best of Luck to ya!

                  Enjoy the sun
                  ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS, DON'T BLAME OTHERS!!!

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                  • #10
                    Funny how everyone else made a similar mistake I was just the first. one did it with a shotgun..That was not a bad day, it was early in the acad. I passed firearms with an "A" no further incidents..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by irishpump
                      Maybe I missed something, but:

                      "I noticed a gun tucked in his wasteband, so i shot him with the simulated gun thru the drivers side window. (he was in a police car, with a shotgun , and has a gun in his wasteband)"

                      The suspect didn't have the gun pointed at you and you shot him?
                      Which in the above scenario would be the proper response. If you think a gun has to be pointed at an officer for deadly force to be justified you are sorely mistaken. For someone to draw and fire from the waistband takes 1.5-2 seconds if they are "average" and around 1 second if they are proficient. To fire from low ready or point usually takes anywhere from .40 -.75 of a second.
                      He WAS RIGHT TO SHOOT. The felon had the means and opportunity to deliver deadly force to the officer in a matter of 2 seconds maximum.
                      Trooperden, akman75, & azmichelle ignored

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                      • #12
                        Hope I don't get in trouble for posting here. I'm not LEO, but am a student of CJ. Only reason I'm posting is due to the last post. My instructor just said something about this last class. He stated that most people, if they have a gun pointed at a suspect, and the suspect reached down into his pocket, that he could remove a gun and get a shot off before you would realize it and shoot your gun. He said the reaction times are just a little behind, and you must make up for that. Just thought I would throw that in.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 6233108
                          Which in the above scenario would be the proper response. If you think a gun has to be pointed at an officer for deadly force to be justified you are sorely mistaken. For someone to draw and fire from the waistband takes 1.5-2 seconds if they are "average" and around 1 second if they are proficient. To fire from low ready or point usually takes anywhere from .40 -.75 of a second.
                          He WAS RIGHT TO SHOOT. The felon had the means and opportunity to deliver deadly force to the officer in a matter of 2 seconds maximum.
                          The reason I said it was because I didn't see any mention of someone reaching for their weapon. Either I missed it, or he was posting it for the first time in his second post. Regardless, I still said "pointed at you." I should clarify that if a suspect had reached for his/her gun, I would have reacted the same way. Anyway, when I read it the first time it sounded like he shot someone for having a gun on him. In all honesty, it just didn't come out right when I typed it.
                          Last edited by irishpump; 09-28-2005, 08:14 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by scooterlee
                            Im sorry that your having bad luck up in Cleveland. If you were down in Cincinnati, I'd try to help you out. I teach in several OPOTA academies down here and I can tell you that we don't use "recruits" as role players. The reason is simple, They haven't "been there done that." When you have recruits act as bad guys, they tend to become immature and do stupid stuff!!!
                            Been there done that. Our first senario (a stolen bike) went south bigtime because my one of my troopmates in the bad guy role went way overboard and assaulted my partner. I handcuffed him and he still continued to act up. I had to whisper in his ear to calm down I was going to dump him on the ground before he calmed down.

                            As the roleplay was spinning out of control so was the training Cpl. And she lost it on my partner and I. Her reasoning was that we hadn't been trained to handcuff, or taught what the assault sections were. She accused my partner and I of being too aggressive. The to cover her own *** because she had become unglued and was the one that should have been controlling the situation. She told the entire troop that "WE" had screwed up by making a false arrest and would have been charged ourselves, or sued civilly.

                            It was total twightlight zone.

                            She was a wingnut at the best of times and I am old enough to know what battles I can win, so I sucked it up. We were under the magnifying glass for little while until she transfered out. That was a good day.

                            I totally agree. If you use the recruits as actors, especially in testing senarios, there is a chance that they will deviate from the game plan and F*** things up.

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                            • #15
                              So all this said and done we ultimatley passed felony traffic stops ... 3 of us are getting our law enforcement careers blackballed by this guy. What are we to do ? And for the record its kinda hard to miss a large 357 magnum redgun jammed into the wasteband of an idiot behind the wheel of a patrol car, theres a reason ASP makes the simulation guns out of a hard red resin plastic material.
                              Last edited by AUXOFC74; 09-28-2005, 10:36 PM.

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