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New York State: Civilians and weapons

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  • pighater
    replied
    Pig Bastard

    post wiped.
    Last edited by officerdotcomm; 11-17-2008, 05:49 PM. Reason: anti-LE posting

    Leave a comment:


  • freem40
    replied
    Originally posted by Sleuth
    To the original poster:
    A good pair of running shoes might be best in NY. As I understand the law there, your best bet, in the words of Monty Python:

    "RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY"

    Or is that just in NYC?

    I believe the law is slightly more specific. I think it says run away and find a corner where you cannot run any further and are within the 21 foot rule guideline and make sure your assailant has a firearm, partner, and/or vehicle and you cannot dodge any of them. In that case and in the case that their is an intruder in your home and in both cases a reasonable person would believe themselves to be in danger of serious physical injory/death, then defend yourself. But do not do so in a manner that could seem malicious, for you shall be prosecuted on the basis of Mr. Smiths inability to correctly relieve himself since in all the action you purposely placed the shot that made it so that he needs to use a colostomy bag for the rest of his life. Hell, we had a few police officers last year shoot a suspect that was fleeing thew scene of a crime, and in doing so was 99 percent likely attempting to run over the police officer. The investigation was almost a year long into the incident. Nobody is safe here. I love NY though. Its becoming the new california, outdoing it 2:1 I think.... I apologize for the rant. Please, assume speaking.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sleuth
    replied
    To the original poster:
    A good pair of running shoes might be best in NY. As I understand the law there, your best bet, in the words of Monty Python:

    "RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY"

    Or is that just in NYC?

    Leave a comment:


  • SgtScott31
    replied
    Originally posted by SlowDownThere
    I knew this would evolve into a 2nd amendment debate. It always does.
    I no longer participate in those debates, but I do enjoy reading them.

    Did the guy who started this thread ever get his question answered?
    What was his question again?

    No kiddin.

    I did like both sides of the controversy, but the outright insults are uncalled for. Duckfan's debate is pertinent and if he is telling the truth about his time on the street, I think a little more respect is deserved.

    Obviously opinions vary on a hot issue such as gun control, but nevertheless, I'm sure he and other legit LEO's on this forum would still put their life on the line for one another any day of the week.

    Stay safe.

    Leave a comment:


  • freem40
    replied
    I wish I would have had the opportunity to be involved in this "debate" when it occured so long ago. Being a non-leo and a ccw holder in New York State is like being shown a birthday cake and being told you cannot have it or blow out the candles. Unfortunately, I have found myself to be one of the only moderately liberal person in New York State that supports police and citizens rights alike. I work as an " armed guard" in many places in the CNY area in situations that require the same quick thinking , verbal judo, defense techniques, handcuffing and pepper spray techniques and violence of action that many leo's daily are involved in. The majority of persons that are interacted with in this manner are generally drug dealers/users and gang members. Often I am on an on-call basis , where I will be the person to respond to situations when TSHTF.
    However, with this knowledge, my CCW permit IS STILL LIMITED to to and from employment,range,hunting. I am glad to know that I am required to:
    a. stay home when not doing such activities.
    -or-
    b. bypass a whole city as not to find myself ijn a situation where I am forcibly interacting off-duty with the same persons that had been detained by myself or my associates or the police that respond to the scene to assist us.


    Thankfully for myself, I got the call today and soon will have the 24/7 statewide jurisdiction capable of assisting me in complete self protection capability. I am so excited for the job

    Leave a comment:


  • SlowDownThere
    replied
    I knew this would evolve into a 2nd amendment debate. It always does.
    I no longer participate in those debates, but I do enjoy reading them.

    Did the guy who started this thread ever get his question answered?
    What was his question again?

    Leave a comment:


  • ESS Ret.
    replied
    We Are All Brothers

    As a 21 year retired veteran of the NYPD I can tell you that I do not look down on any COP anywhere in this great country! All of us face the same **** every day. We may face it in different environments, but its all the same.When you are fighting for your life and calling a 13(officer needs assistance) on the 17th floor of some filthy housing project with no working elevator, or doing the same on a rural road, rolling on the ground with some mutt it seems like forever until help gets there. So I don't put down my brothers in other departments nor do any of my brothers in the NYPD. Oh and by the way the only people who can not carry their firearm under hr 218 are retired NYC Police Officers. This is because the NYPD says they will not certify us, and at least for the moment they are the only ones who can certify us.So as far as my read of the law goes; if your department says you are good to go, you are. If you are active duty you are automatically covered by HR 218. I have been retired for 3+ years and I don't take the garbage out to the curb without my firearm.



    Stay alert, Shoot first, Go home to your family

    Leave a comment:


  • AtlCop
    replied
    Originally posted by duckfan
    Hey AtlCop,
    You've got a right to bear arms? Why don't we test it? Strap that Glock to your hip and take a hike through Penn Station. Just think of the millions you're going to make when they violate your "rights". If you're an active duty cop are you going to get arrested? No ,of course not, Federal Law will cover you on that, eventually. Are you going to get your balls broken and spend a few hours in custody while they check you out? You bet your *** you are. Don't expect your shield and ID card to speed things along either. Any one can buy a shield on EBAY and make a decent looking ID card with their home computer. Someone had better be available in your agency who can confirm your identity. Don't forget to tell them about the "right to bear arms". I'm sure they'll be impressed. Please come back here and let us know how you make out, OK?
    Duckfan:


    First of all, I'm not impressed with all of your "experience" and don't think that you are better than me after reading your post. Nor do I think I am better than you. However, I will respond briefly.

    My ID and badge are verifiable on the spot. My Georgia POST status is verifiable on the spot.

    I'll be a new millionaire if the detainment goes for longer than 30-45 minutes.

    Secondly, you talk about not receiving PC from southern officers then you slam us. You are no better than us just because you were NYPD. OOOOOOOOO... Let me bow and kiss your feet.... I hope you can sense the sarcasm oozing from this. Did you ever think that maybe its your attitude that affects whether or not you get PC? If I told you that you were beneath me and not as good as me, would you give me PC?

    As far as the Second amendment, you need to learn how sentence structure works. The citizens are guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms. The reason they are granted this right is so that there can BE a well-organized militia. The right to keep and bear arms is not dependent on the condition of there being a well-organized militia. It is the other way around. This is called English 101.

    We are all officers. We all put our lives on the line everyday. It doesn't matter what department you work for. If you go out and work the streets as an officer, we're all equal.

    Leave a comment:


  • mosetti
    replied
    To the thread starter:

    A knife or baton as a self defense weapon is a bad idea unless you are trained with them. In an altercation you have to get up close and personal with someone in order to use them and if you can reach them, they can reach you. It is important to remember that any weapon you carry could potentially be taken from you and used against you.

    Pepper spray is a much better option since you do not have to be as close to use it and it is generally not considered lethal force, unlike a knife or baton.

    Leave a comment:


  • WTPD3534
    replied
    Duckfan, I noticed that you convieniently did not reply to my point, but instead resorted to ad hominem attacks on those that do not agree with you. Which is fine. Just proves our point even more. Quite typical of your holier than thou kind actually.

    Leave a comment:


  • Creeker
    replied
    Originally posted by duckfan
    Aw Gee! Does that mean you're not going to visit us? Let me call Mayor Bloomberg so he can raise taxes to make up for all the money you were going to spend here.

    For the record, the T-shirt says " Welcome to New York, now learn to speak English or go home"

    If you bring illegal weapons, don't come at all. We have enough already.
    ...
    Nice try at enrolling "Bully tactics" to make a brother officer feel insignificant to the grand scheme of the big city. I'd say the liklihood of "Big City" Officers visiting the South is far more likely and of them moving here even more, so I won't sweat who has the better life. Your taxes are already astronomically high anyhow, so don't worry your Rino Mayor with details about making the city more attractive to visit on many of our accounts.

    As for the t-shirt, they must have added some words to the slogan in the last year since illegals have become a significantly recognised problem. I know the sentiment that was expressed and the shirts I saw.

    So how is gun control working out for ya'll? I guess it is quite successful, since your Homicide rates have decreased so significantly that more homicides are being committed with pots and baseball bats nowadays. Even your own retired cops who have even spilt blood defending citizens can't be trusted with firearms... well we damn well know active cops can't be trusted to go to Conventions in other big cities, so I guess they can't be responsible with firearms either. damn good thing the Federal Govt. entrusts us more than a bloated NYC Administrator that has maybe a week on the street... if that much.

    Despite apparent propaganda to the contrary, it is not retired or active Cops that bring illegal weapons. I assure you that all of mine that I bring to the city are quite legal, and that I'll be qualified to carry them, despite the apparent hostility of those who wear the badge to my doing so. I would suggest that they will be wasting their efforts on arresting me when there are plenty of other "perps" for them to successfully prosecute and for better reasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • jnojr
    replied
    Originally posted by duckfan
    I'm a retired cop, I'm allowed to carry a gun anywhere in the State and regularly travel to NYC. I don't carry. Why? There's no need. I feel safe wherever I travel in NYS.
    How do you get on the list to receive a memo when someone is planning on mugging you, or that today is the day some psycopath is going to flip out and decide that you need to die?

    Leave a comment:


  • Cruiser
    replied
    Oh come on. First off understand that 'we' are not talking about 'civilians' but about active or retired LEO's that are under HR218. I don't really care that the bleeding hearts that run so many departments don't like it, it is the law, get used to it. In addition I am confused about first NY is exceptionally safe and only NY LEO's need to carry yet in another post NY is so very dangerous that we lowly step-children from other states cannot possibly survive with all the difficult and dangerous calls and patrols you do. Give me a break. I have policed in a number of states and the toughest cops I have ever run into are those from the South who routinely put up with some very tough good ol' boys. Those brothers from Texas and Calif don't have it easy with the gangs there either! How about the Outlaw MC gangs in the South? I have had former NY police officers come and join my department and guess what, most don't make it or quit because of the danger and stess. ALL LEO's have a difficult time so don't play the high and mighty, it might just come back and bite you in the ***. They have finally given me the right to CCW in all 50 states and DC and I intend on doing so. If some smart-***ed rookie want to give me a bunch of crap over it, try, he will have the Feds on his butt as well as a lawsuit. I have earned the right to be treated with respect and I demand you do so just as I treat you with respect.

    Leave a comment:


  • duckfan
    replied
    Originally posted by Creeker
    "Welcome to New York. Now go home."

    ...
    Aw Gee! Does that mean you're not going to visit us? Let me call Mayor Bloomberg so he can raise taxes to make up for all the money you were going to spend here.

    For the record, the T-shirt says " Welcome to New York, now learn to speak English or go home"

    If you bring illegal weapons, don't come at all. We have enough already.

    You opened the door with your "bigger, badder " comment and I did write a long reply saying exactly what I thought of the Campus Security Guards, Walmart Loss Prevention guys and wanabees who frequent this this forum posing as real cops and who have the gall to give legal advice. Out of respect to the real cops who do frequent this board, I erased it. It's impossible to explain what it's like to do an 8 hour tour in the South Bronx to someone who spent his 8 hour tour writing speeders and counting squirrels.(Not that there's anything wrong with that, I did both and prefer doing squirrel head counts.)
    For those who are real cops and responded to the part of this thread regarding the Second Amendment, I suggest you contact your Department's training officer and request a remedial course in Constitutional Law. You might be surprised to find that nothing in the Bill of Rights is an absolute. Believe it or not, the "right to bear arms" does not mean that you can carry any weapon(arms),any time and any place you feel like it. There's also that little problem with the mention of a well regulated militia, but I'll go along with the NRA and ignore that little discrepancy.
    Have you ever noticed that you can't buy hand grenades and shoulder fired SAMS at your local Walmart? Why is that? After all, aren't they just "arms" and protected by the Second Amendment? I know that because WTPD3534 told me so. How we define the word "arms" is up to each and every individual. Grenades are a lot of fun. I enjoy blowing things up for sport. No one ever missed a deer hunting it with a grenade. Besides, it's quickest, surest and most humane way to do it. It's much better than those 50 cal. rifles some guys claim they need for hunting. Who the h*ll in the Government decided I can't have them? I also want to have a SAM just in case Al Queda hi-jacks another plane and flies it near my house. Screw everyone else, I want to be able to protect my family! Why doesn't Walmart sell them? They sell just about everything else. Isn't it my right to bear arms? Could it be that there's a law against selling them? If I respond to a Federal Court Jury summons, where do they get off telling me I can't bring my gun into the Court House? I have a full carry permit and I'm legally allowed to carry. Besides, it's a Court House and it's full of felons. What happens if I run into someone I put in prison? I won't be safe without my gun. How does the Government get away with trampling my rights and putting me in danger like that?
    Any one who has an intelligent reponse to my questions is welcome to reply. Just be aware that it's a slippery slope and if you allow the Government to regulate your right to bear arms, any type of arms, you're inviting them to ban all arms. Everyone should own a howitzer.

    You square badges can go back to Walmart or Target or Sears or whatever store you work for, I'm tired to playing with you and I'm outta here.( No Creeker, this doesn't apply to you.)

    Leave a comment:


  • djack16
    replied
    A folding, four-inch, single-edged blade is completely worthless for use in self-defense.
    That is not true. A four-inch blade had great potential, granted it is nowhere near as dangerous as a firearm.

    I saw a pretty fat gang-member all gashed up with a little 2 inch butterfly. The other dude was pretty surgical with it though...

    I carry a 3.5 inch folder and I am pretty sure of it's abilities. You have to know where the best places to attack are so study up on the human anatomy. But if you are ever confronted by another dude with a knife you should just run.

    Running is almost always a good plan. Too many people get toe-tagged because they thought they were Rambo. .

    Leave a comment:

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