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    OK, i was waiting for more info on this story, but it looks like much of the investigation is done.

    http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8AUQC1G0.html

    If you dont feel like reading the link, 3 little boys in Camden, NJ, went missing from their front yard.

    To make a long story short, they were found dead by one of the fathers, in the trunk of a car right on the property where they went missing. Film shows that the car was searched, but the officer only looked in the windows. Are they not trained to check trunks? You know i'm pro-cop, but my family is freaking out, especially my niece, who has two little boys.

    I'm not saying the officer could have saved them, but at least the bodies would have been found sooner, i believe the car was searched the nite they disappeared.

    Its hard to believe no one heard them yelling, but maybe the heat made them pass out.

    And yes, i blame the parents for leaving the unlocked (i'm guessing it was) car in the yard. The car had not run for weeks, and one of the boys had played in it before.

    If you saw any of this on the news, you may have seen the video of the father discovering the bodies. Its such a sad, horrible story.

    Camden is a sad, dangerous place anyway...my ex-b/f worked there as a social worker, and the clinic i volunteer from is there. A good friend is a retired Camden cop...so it all hits close to home.

    Just wondering your ideas on the search?
    Last edited by Jellybean400; 06-25-2005, 03:05 PM.

  • #2
    News video ALWAYS tell only part of a story. They never give a full account of anything. Editing does a lot to change the context of the footage. The media is looking for ratings, they are not concerned with much else. They will drive that story (not checking the trunk) until the wheels fall off.

    There are any number of reasons the trunk was not searched, if that is case. The media rarely has all the information in a criminal investigation. They run with what they have and tha is usually only part of the story.

    Comment


    • #3
      Seeing the pcture and video of the fathers reaction is heart wrenching. I heard an interview with waht i believe was the Camdon Chief and he stated that they searched the car but there was no clerification as to having searched the trunk. The video is pretty damming, showing the officer walking around the vehicle and not opening it.

      In no way shape or form am I, or would I accuse the police for this mishap. We are all human and it certainly was an oversite. Lots of things happening on scene and sometimes the little details get missed because the big picture is all that is seen. I know the parents are probably just as frantic and not in a complete mind set but it leaves me with some questions, If the kids were known to have played in the car why didn't the mother say it or just look there herself before the search was in full swing? Jellybean asked and I want ot know too- Why didn't anyone hear these children scream, cry, pounding.... anything? Seems to me that if the mother "just ran inside for a second" that when she came back out she would have started yelling for them. Kids were probably "hiding" but at some point they had to have some fear, enough to scream for help anyway.

      I guess there are lots of scenarios that could have played out. I certainly don't blame the search teams. Parent has more blame here. That officer seen in the video has to be torn up inside. Tragic, just tragic. I know that I will never miss a trunk on a search from this day forward.

      Comment


      • #4
        Three kids, playing "let's hide from the parents" in a trunk.. it's hot, and suffocation happens quickly. The kids just fall asleep, maybe never even making noises. There's a possibility that within and hour or less of climbing in the trunk, they're dead. It's tragic, but it's the same basic reason that refridgerators get the doors taken off of them before being tossed. Kids just don't know that certain places to hide can kill them. It's horrible and I feel deeply for the families. It's also really no one's fault. By the time the police were called, it was most likely already too late. The best we can all do is learn from this, mourn, and move on, because life goes on.

        It's hard to do, but necessary.
        STFU! Another great suggestion from the same mind that brought you "Kiss my butt" and "Leave me alone"


        Why not?

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, the news somehow found out that the trunk "wasnt airtight." They asked the police Chief at a press-conference that is it POSSIBLE the kids were still alive when the police were seen searching around the car, and looking in the windows. and he said "yes, its possible." No now they'll just RUN with it... I'm too ****ed anymore to even watch...

          Comment


          • #6
            Just remember, airtight doesn't mean they would be able to get enough fresh air in to keep all three kids breathing. A paper bag isn't air tight either, but you sure can tell there's not enough breathable air after a few short moments of breathing into one. I agree, the press will probably blow this thing out of proportion, but the fact remains that it wasn't the police who told the kids to go hide. People are looking for someone to blame, but blaming the police for the kids deaths is parallel to blaming firefighters when a house burns down.
            STFU! Another great suggestion from the same mind that brought you "Kiss my butt" and "Leave me alone"


            Why not?

            Comment


            • #7
              There may have been a mindset of kidnap or foul play.

              Please keep in mind, that cop has to live the rest of his life remembering this and second guessing himself; what if I had looked in that trunk.

              And of course it's going to be his entire fault.

              He may have done a cursory check because he believed the parents had already checked that whole area out; wouldn
              Kelly

              We are the thin blue line
              between you
              and all the money in the world.

              And no you can't have any.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, i started watching again

                They have a video of an officer looking in the car windows, and under the car, right underneath the trunk area...very creepy.

                There were bags of cement in the trunk, which was all over the kids, and also which they breathed in. Some of their shirts and shoes were in the car, so people are also saying the cops should have asked about that. That also tells me that mom didnt go inside the house for only "5-10 minutes." i HATE to blame the parents, because they are suffering enough, but blaming the cops doesnt make it right.

                One father IS blaming the police, while another father has only praise for them and all their help. He's the father who's yard it happened in...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sounds fishy to me! I can't see three kids getting into a trunk and then just waiting there.I would look to see if any clothing had this dust from the cement on it and see if anything else seemed out of place.What was the cement for....I ask because if it where winter, it would make good traction,but in this case, I might think twice.It sounds as fishy as a case that happened in Wisconsin,that they still never truely figured out.I hope this was not a copy!
                  Sad and heart breaking news!
                  I am truly sorry for the family of these three boy's and all my prayer's go out to them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's happened before

                    This was not a first. There was a search in the Southwest some years ago where the subject of the search, a young child, was found deceased in the trunk of a car next to the residence he or she was missing from. I have taken, and taught, classes on urban search management, a new side of search management focused on searching in the urban environment and hopefully tragic cases like this will cause more and more search managers to seek such training. There are some pretty effective tools being developed for finding missing kids and elderly folks.

                    The first step is to trash the residence and immediate surrounding area. Look everywhere that the person could possibly be. One LE search manager I know recommened bringing in a drug enforcement team as they are pretty proficient at ripping a residence up looking for dope and such.

                    Hopefully this won't happen again

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      One father IS blaming the police, while another father has only praise for them and all their help. He's the father who's yard it happened in...

                      Wait till they start suing each other.
                      That will be ugly.
                      Kelly

                      We are the thin blue line
                      between you
                      and all the money in the world.

                      And no you can't have any.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm a member of a Search & Rescue team that was put on standby for this search. I would like the input of police officers. Can anyone recommend how we (SAR teams) can develop better relationships with police officers? We heard that the kids were most likely alive for 24 hours inside the trunk. We were ready to go, but were never allowed to deploy.

                        It seems as if we are viewed as competition, which is not the way to view us. We want to work with you. We should be viewed as a tool in your toolkit. The police are asked to find a missing person, and you, as police officers, choose us as the tool to use. We do not stop on account of darkness. We are also all volunteers, so money is not an issue. This search was scaled down at 6pm "on account of darkness". Why?

                        I have also been asked whether we would have found them in the trunk. Nothing is 100%, but my team and the canines train 8 hours a week to find people. That's all we do. The area closest to the point where the subjects were last seen is checked several times during a search by different people so nothing is assumed. As this search illustrates, finding people is not as easy as it sounds. Methodical clearing of an area does take practice. Detailed records have to be kept, etc.

                        My point in writing this is to see how we can stop this from happening again. The facts are that 3 children were missing inside a trunk of a car that was 30 feet from the house. We specialize in finding people, but were not used. Why?

                        Thank you for your time.

                        ~Jen

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          search training

                          I'm sure SAR does great work in recovery cases, but sadly, I believe the police in this case were assuming a crime scene and didn't want to have it contaminated by extra bodies. We'll never know if that was a good call or not, but that is the biggest obstacle in recruiting or accepting outside assistance at these kinds of searches. More cross training would probably alleviate much of that, just as we have tried to do with fire-rescue on a crime scene.
                          Jerry
                          "If all else fails, stop using all else!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Jerry,

                            Thank you for your reply. While I understand wanting to deal with a possible crime scene correctly, we are trained to do just that. There were many regular volunteers helping out, if I recall, so I find it hard to believe that the preservation of the crime scene was their first priority. We ran into a crime scene in early June. We had two detectives with us, which is fine. If a crime scene is suspected, we would be happy to have officers and detectives come with us while clearing an area. The gentleman we found in the woods was there for two weeks. I was more than happy to let the detectives deal with it.

                            Again, thank you for replying.

                            ~Jen

                            Comment

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