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  • Misconduct in Michigan

    Honest opinion of how you would have reacted:

    I was on my way to work in the evening, usually you can't even go 55mph on this road because of traffic but I was doing approx 5mph over the speed limit with the flow of traffic (two lane highway). I had my radio on very loud and the windows down. An officer turned around to follow me and I slowed down to less than 50mph expecting to get pulled over but he didn't pull me over. Followed me for 1 1/2 miles and signaled his lights in an awkward place- a long uphill curved bridge with only two lanes and guard rails.

    I've been in an accident on a curve before when the police obstructed traffic and my vehicle was totalled. Since I was so close to the interstate entrance I thought maybe he got a call and was headed there and I slowed down and yielded to the right but did not stop. At the top of the hill (approx 4/10ths of a mile) was the road I work on and you can only turn right, which I did, with the officer following me, I was driving really slow at the time and looked in the rear view mirror to see someone in a rage. I watched for a minute in fear and shock but being only 2/10ths of a mile from my employer's parking lot- and it being the very next parking lot on a two-lane road with a raised curb and no shoulder- I slowly proceeded to the parking lot and got out to speak to the officer.

    He had his hand on his gun and screamed at me and treated me like I just robbed a bank and told me I was going to jail and to put my hands on the car, which I did. He struck me in between my shoulder blades while cuffing me every time I turned my head to ask him why I was going to jail. After getting hit twice I used profanity and it got worse. I was knocked into my car several times then he swung me around like a rag doll and I couldn't even walk straight and slammed me into his cruiser then dragged me along side it to unlock the back door.

    I told the officer he was being too aggressive and he lied and said "because you were resisting" - I have over a dozen witnesses that saw me do what he told me to do, all I was asking was why I was being arrested, which you usually tell us without a problem. In the cruiser I told him I was going to file a complaint against him and he told me I wouldn't have even gotten a ticket if I had stopped immediately. What is wrong with where I stopped? A few weeks prior to this I was stopped for having my plate in the hatch window instead of fastened on the car and I chose a parking lot instead of the side of the road that was 3/10ths of a mile away, plus I got out to talk to that officer and there was no problem.

    My wrists were welted and I had bruises, spent 24 hrs in jail, missed work, broke me to post bail, and am facing two felonies. My daughter's summer is ruined because we were struggling financially before this happened (although not enough to qualify for a free attorney). My idea of fleeing an officer is not this, I wasn't trying to get away at all. I've been to the department to speak with his boss and emailed the prosecuting attorney and filed my complaint and there is an internal investigation starting concerning the excessive force but I'm a single parent facing two felonies because of where I stopped? I didn't resist anything and I was only disrespectful because the guy was hurting me unnecessarily. I was 20 minutes early for work and not in a hurry. I've always been friends with and have dated officers, and I was completely legal.

    Also, will the cruiser camera show what happened at my car if he parked behind me in a "T" position with his passenger side facing the end of my vehicle and the action taking place on my rear driver side? I'm not out to ruin his life over this but I don't need ours ruined either.
    17
    Their reason will be heard &/or they will get a warning.
    52.94%
    9
    They are getting a ticket (civil infraction).
    35.29%
    6
    They are going to jail and being charged with felony fleeing and eluding.
    11.76%
    2
    Last edited by ReneeFun1; 06-24-2005, 04:53 PM.

  • #2
    misconduct

    Welcome to the scourge of professional police everywhere...the heavy handed traffic cop. If you didn't do anything to deserve any of that treatment, be sure to follow through with your complaint.
    Jerry
    "If all else fails, stop using all else!"

    Comment


    • #3
      misconduct

      By the way, what were the 2 felony charges?
      Jerry
      "If all else fails, stop using all else!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Fleeing and resisting.

        Comment


        • #5
          Misconduct

          Neither of the events you described constitute a felony in most jurisdictions. Unfortunately, you have to plead not guilty and go before a judge to make your case. Go back and get those witnesses if you can. Fleeing to elude can hardly be the case and resisting arrest without violence would be a misdemeanor here. Good luck!
          Jerry
          "If all else fails, stop using all else!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you. The witnesses are my coworkers. Some were all ready outside and the rest heard the siren and came out to watch.

            Comment


            • #7
              Here is a couple of things that you should know.

              When an officer turns on his emergency lights, pull over and STOP. RIGHT AWAY. It is not your decision as to the location of the traffic stop. If the officer thought that the location was unsafe, he would not have activated his lights.

              You mentioned that your coworkers heard the siren. So, there is a police car behind you, with lights and siren activated, and you still did not stop? WTF?

              And yet another lesson, do not, I repeat, DO NOT EXIT YOU VEHICLE! Remain in your vehicle for the officer to approach you.

              Your side of the story does not add up to Flee/Elude and Resisting arrest, There has got to be more to this story.

              If everything you have said is exactly how it happened, then you ran into an officer with some issues.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ReneeFun1
                Honest opinion of how you would have reacted:

                I was on my way to work in the evening, usually you can't even go 55mph on this road because of traffic but I was doing approx 5mph over the speed limit with the flow of traffic (two lane highway). I had my radio on very loud and the windows down. An officer turned around to follow me and I slowed down to less than 50mph expecting to get pulled over but he didn't pull me over. Followed me for 1 1/2 miles and signaled his lights in an awkward place- a long uphill curved bridge with only two lanes and guard rails. I've been in an accident on a curve before when the police obstructed traffic and my vehicle was totalled. Since I was so close to the interstate entrance I thought maybe he got a call and was headed there and I slowed down and yielded to the right but did not stop. At the top of the hill (approx 4/10ths of a mile) was the road I work on and you can only turn right, which I did, with the officer following me, I was driving really slow at the time and looked in the rear view mirror to see someone in a rage. I watched for a minute in fear and shock but being only 2/10ths of a mile from my employer's parking lot- and it being the very next parking lot on a two-lane road with a raised curb and no shoulder- I slowly proceeded to the parking lot and got out to speak to the officer. He had his hand on his gun and screamed at me and treated me like I just robbed a bank and told me I was going to jail and to put my hands on the car, which I did. He struck me in between my shoulder blades while cuffing me every time I turned my head to ask him why I was going to jail. After getting hit twice I used profanity and it got worse. I was knocked into my car several times then he swung me around like a rag doll and I couldn't even walk straight and slammed me into his cruiser then dragged me along side it to unlock the back door. I told the officer he was being too aggressive and he lied and said "because you were resisting" - I have over a dozen witnesses that saw me do what he told me to do, all I was asking was why I was being arrested, which you usually tell us without a problem. In the cruiser I told him I was going to file a complaint against him and he told me I wouldn't have even gotten a ticket if I had stopped immediately. What is wrong with where I stopped? A few weeks prior to this I was stopped for having my plate in the hatch window instead of fastened on the car and I chose a parking lot instead of the side of the road that was 3/10ths of a mile away, plus I got out to talk to that officer and there was no problem. My wrists were welted and I had bruises, spent 24 hrs in jail, missed work, broke me to post bail, and am facing two felonies. My daughter's summer is ruined because we were struggling financially before this happened (although not enough to qualify for a free attorney). My idea of fleeing an officer is not this, I wasn't trying to get away at all. I've been to the department to speak with his boss and emailed the prosecuting attorney and filed my complaint and there is an internal investigation starting concerning the excessive force but I'm a single parent facing two felonies because of where I stopped? I didn't resist anything and I was only disrespectful because the guy was hurting me unnecessarily. I was 20 minutes early for work and not in a hurry. I've always been friends with and have dated officers, and I was completely legal. Also, will the cruiser camera show what happened at my car if he parked behind me in a "T" position with his passenger side facing the end of my vehicle and the action taking place on my rear driver side? I'm not out to ruin his life over this but I don't need ours ruined either.
                I can't see you receiving any understanding or sympathy on this board since you admited you failed to stop for the red lights. As one person already said, you don't decide where to stop, the officer directs you where to stop.

                If you feel your case is a strong one, I suggest you retain counsel.

                As far as the force used to handcuff you, I'm sure that if it was unnnecessary, when your attorney has the video played, it will substantiate your allegations.
                Retired

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lights from an emergency vehicle = pull to right shoulder and stop, or make some sort of indication to the officer or your intention to move to a lit area if it is dark (slow down, hit the 4 ways).

                  Exiting vehicle without being instructed to do so = bad move, there are only four reasons why people get out of their cars on stops without being told to do so first:

                  1) They are going to run (probably because they are wanted or are doing something illegal)
                  2) They want to hurt you (us - the cop)
                  3) They want to distance themselves from the dead body, illegal firearm, narcotics, etc in the car
                  4) They are ignorant

                  Odds are 75% in favor of something bad, if you get out, expect to be checking out the business end of a nasty looking gun.


                  When a police officer is searching you or placing cuffs on you it is a very tense situation for them, this is the point that most people decide that they don't like the position they are in and decide to do something about it. Cops know this, any sort of sudden movement, or turning towards the officer may very well get you a face full of asphalt (translated to assisting the subject to a prone cuffing position to facilitate the cuff/search and prevent potential injury to him or me).



                  I am not defending the officer, simply trying to educate people in the event that they find themselves approaching similar situations. Not all officers have the same experience(s) or training and everyone has their own approach, this guy may have been out of line, I wasn't there and can't say, but then again, some very simple actions rooted in common sense could have prevented this.



                  "when the police obstructed traffic and my vehicle was totalled"
                  Sounds like there may be a bit of bad blood for you there already anyhow.

                  And PLEASE, if you post any more, please try to use paragraphs or something to divide up your novel, that was very difficult to read.

                  -web
                  Last edited by webjeep; 06-24-2005, 04:45 PM.
                  "there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "You mentioned that your coworkers heard the siren. So, there is a police car behind you, with lights and siren activated, and you still did not stop? WTF?"

                    I was stopped at this point and in a parking lot, they heard the siren and/or were told what was going on and came out. I was standing next to the car waiting for him to approach me, not going anywhere. There was no reason to drive anymore at this point (at work) which is part of the reason I got out. I was easy to approach and did as I was told. I could see the part about his wanting to cuff a person and be safe but I lose empathy for him after the cuffs are on. So basically, you're saying I don't have the right to go to a parking lot and should have stopped on the bridge or in the way of traffic on the road with no shoulder?

                    "when the police obstructed traffic and my vehicle was totalled"
                    Sounds like there may be a bit of bad blood for you there already anyhow."


                    Nope, this was a multiple car accident. There were all ready four vehicles in an accident before I got into it. I have always gone to parking lots or as far off the freeway as possible since, that's all.

                    "As far as the force used to handcuff you, I'm sure that if it was unnnecessary, when your attorney has the video played, it will substantiate your allegations."

                    Striking was before, during, and after cuffing me. Pushing and dragging me around was on the way to the cruiser, after cuffing. Am hoping the video picks it up since he calmed down quite a bit once he was by his car and/or because he saw all of the witnesses. But still, I'm looking for opinions if that's a felony to you and/or how you would have handled it. There is nothing more to it. I swore at him after the second hit, my family says that's the reason he was so hard on me. I was completely legal with nothing to hide, he searched my car and everything. I've read on local department websites that we are to pull over in a safe place. I can't find anything stating we can't but if you know of an ordinance or law or anything, please let me know. It happens very fast you know.
                    Last edited by ReneeFun1; 06-24-2005, 05:23 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ReneeFun1
                      I've read on local department websites that we are to pull over in a safe place. It happens very fast you know.
                      Just adding to the conversation
                      Local blue light bandit a few years back, All the news readers were telling young ladies to go to a safe, lighted place before pulling over. Also the advise of the local LE as I understand it. One lady did it and made the morning news. Spent the night in jail.
                      Straight Up

                      new office pic relocated to: http://truckingamerica.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ReneeFun1
                        "You mentioned that your coworkers heard the siren. So, there is a police car behind you, with lights and siren activated, and you still did not stop? WTF?"

                        I was stopped at this point and in a parking lot, they heard the siren and/or were told what was going on and came out.
                        I highly doubt that the police officer did not activate his siren until you were stopped in the parking lot. I imagine that the officer was behind you with lights AND siren while you were still driving.

                        MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE:

                        257.653 Immediate approach of authorized emergency vehicle; duty of driver of another vehicle; duty of streetcar operator; violation as civil infraction.

                        (a) The driver of another vehicle shall yield the right of way and shall immediately drive to a position parallel to and as close as possible to the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway, clear of an intersection, and shall stop and remain in that position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer.
                        I do not see anywhere in the Vehicle Code where is states that it is OK to continue driving to a parking lot.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah, there are a lot of mixed messages about it. Some officers say we should go to a safe place, some department websites say it, some on here say stop immediately. I'd just like to see it in writing somewhere.

                          "I can't see you receiving any understanding or sympathy on this board since you admited you failed to stop for the red lights. As one person already said, you don't decide where to stop, the officer directs you where to stop."

                          Sympathy on a message board isn't going to get me anywhere in court, I'm just looking for opinions for my own peace of mind. You guys are trained to deal with us, we're not driving around knowing everything and all acting the same. Of course I'd jump the curb and pull over right away now, probably raise my hands out of the car for him to see and not say a word even if I did get the same treatment. But it all ready happened and I did slow down and stop, a little over half a mile takes about what? Two minutes? Is it that important to you that someone stop immediately and obstruct traffic so you can give them a warning and send them on their way (what he said he was going to do)? Why not pull me over right away back when there was a shoulder to pull off on? I'm sure he had his reasons for that, but my reasons for going to a parking lot don't matter?

                          "I highly doubt that the police officer did not activate his siren until you were stopped in the parking lot. I imagine that the officer was behind you with lights AND siren while you were still driving."

                          Yes, I all ready stated he signaled on the bridge.

                          Thanks for the Michigan vehicle code, all I found was the definition of failure to stop (fleeing) and it didn't sound like the situation at all.
                          Last edited by ReneeFun1; 06-24-2005, 05:54 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ReneeFun1
                            Yeah, there are a lot of mixed messages about it. Some officers say we should go to a safe place, some department websites say it, some on here say stop immediately. I'd just like to see it in writing somewhere.
                            I just gave it to you in writing. (Michigan Vehicle Code)

                            Originally posted by ReneeFun1
                            Why not pull me over right away back when there was a shoulder to pull off on? I'm sure he had his reasons for that, but my reasons for going to a parking lot don't matter?
                            No, your reasons do not matter. You do not have the authority to make those decisions.


                            Originally posted by ReneeFun1

                            Thanks for the Michigan vehicle code, all I found was the definition of failure to stop (fleeing) and it didn't sound like the situation at all.
                            your welcome.
                            As I said in a previous post, from what you have written, you did not commit the crime of Flee/Elude. However, I imagine things would sound differently if the officer provided his side of the story.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              if at all possible try to think like a cop. The guys might not want to admit this but it is scarier than [email protected]#$ whn you are trying to stop a car and It does not stop RIGHT away. An then to have someone get out and walk up to you after that you cannot imagine the pucker factor. If you were that worried about stopping you could have called 911 and told the operator what was going on while you stopped at least then the officer would have knew what was on your mind. You need to keep in mind we deal with the criminal element everyday. Our priority is to go home to our familes EVERY night. If your feeling get hurt Oh well. I need to live.
                              Hey Ms. call my peoples yo!

                              07/03/04
                              Officer Brian D. Winder Rest in peace

                              Comment

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