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Why not regulate LE?

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  • Why not regulate LE?

    Lawyers, doctors, architects... each have their own federal standards and tests and certifications to pass.


    Why not make policing the same?


    Sure there's accreditation, but the departments have to choose to do it and also have to pay for it.


    Why not?


    -Z

  • #2
    I don't believe that there is any Federal certification for lawyers, unless you want to take a case to a higher Federal court. The "base" certification for lawyers lies with their state bar association.
    Talk sense to a fool, and he will call you foolish - Euripides

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    • #3
      Doesn't every state regulate what type of training/certification is required for it's police officers? I know that is the case in Massachusetts.
      Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The first amendment protected views/commentary/opinions/satire expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Delta784
        I don't believe that there is any Federal certification for lawyers, unless you want to take a case to a higher Federal court. The "base" certification for lawyers lies with their state bar association.

        Sorry I was mistaken about that part... I probably was just thinking of the BAR... But even that is pretty regulated within itself.

        And sure each state may have its own standards of training but should there be a federal reguation?

        Maybe if there was a true regulation, one wouldn't have to reapply and retrain just for switching departments.

        -Z

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        • #5
          IMO, we don't need anymore federal regulations. The states can handle regulating LEOs just fine.

          There aren't many jobs out there that I can think of that are regulated by the federal government. I don't know about architects, but I know that lawyers are regulated by state bar associations and physicians are regulated by state medical boards. States have the right to regulate practicioners of certain occupations within their borders without unneccesary federal intervention.

          As to reapplying and retraining, that's mainly a department issue. Departments have their own way of doing things and they want their officers to learn their methods, no matter what they learned before. Experienced officers from any other department coming to work for my agency will go through the same six week orientation/training period that new hires without experience go through. The only difference is that when FTO starts, experienced officers can complete it sooner.

          Considering that laws and procedures vary from state to state, it would be very difficult to come out with a nationwide curriculum of training. It's not really an issue anyway, as most states are good at allowing officers from other states to transfer their certifications without going through the entire academy over again.

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          • #6
            Re: Why not regulate LE?

            Originally posted by ZmanCarlvr
            Lawyers, doctors, architects... each have their own federal standards and tests and certifications to pass.


            Why not make policing the same?


            Sure there's accreditation, but the departments have to choose to do it and also have to pay for it.


            Why not?


            -Z
            Um...Every state does have its own Standards, tests, certifications...for LE! Each dept does as well...what is the point you are getting at with this? If you want things to be regulated at the Federal Level...go in to Fed LE!

            Your thread makes no sense to me...
            "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

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            • #7
              I know that each state has it's own set of regulations for both Professional Engineers and CPAs. It seems most professions are regulated at a state level.

              Remember, Federal Regulation != Better (not usually anyways).
              Hail hail the gang's all here, when the going gets tough I know my friends will still be there. - Drop Kick Murphys, "The Gang's all Here"

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              • #8
                Re: Re: Why not regulate LE?

                Originally posted by irishlad2nv
                Um...Every state does have its own Standards, tests, certifications...for LE! Each dept does as well...what is the point you are getting at with this? If you want things to be regulated at the Federal Level...go in to Fed LE!

                Your thread makes no sense to me...

                There's no need to get all crazy about my question.

                The reason I asked, was that I do not understand why police are always in the spotlight for bad things and that there is always something being done wrong, so why not try to avoid the problem further and sooner?

                I do not want to get into federal law enforcement, my plan is to be an officer at the county level.

                People ask questions on here to get conversations going, not to get bashed about 'not making sense'.

                Next time think before you bash.

                -Z

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ZmanCarlvr
                  And sure each state may have its own standards of training but should there be a federal reguation?
                  I don't think so. The vast majority of law enforcement takes place at the local/county/state level, and I think the states are doing a good job at regulating training standards.

                  Federal standards would have been a good idea back in the days when a cop was sworn-in, handed a badge & gun, then sent out on patrol. In today's litigious climate, I think that every law enforcement agency is keenly aware of the need for high training standards.
                  Talk sense to a fool, and he will call you foolish - Euripides

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                  • #10
                    "The reason I asked, was that I do not understand why police are always in the spotlight for bad things and that there is always something being done wrong, so why not try to avoid the problem further and sooner?"

                    That's easy to fix, just shoot all the lawyers.



                    Kelly

                    We are the thin blue line
                    between you
                    and all the money in the world.

                    And no you can't have any.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Re: Re: Why not regulate LE?

                      Originally posted by ZmanCarlvr
                      There's no need to get all crazy about my question.

                      The reason I asked, was that I do not understand why police are always in the spotlight for bad things and that there is always something being done wrong, so why not try to avoid the problem further and sooner?

                      I do not want to get into federal law enforcement, my plan is to be an officer at the county level.

                      People ask questions on here to get conversations going, not to get bashed about 'not making sense'.

                      Next time think before you bash.

                      -Z
                      I did not bash nor insult...all I stated was it did not make sense to me...if you would have started the thread off with what you just typed then it would have made a lot more sense...a lot more...but sometimes you will get people like me who had a long shift and i unwind on here sometimes...but i do not "bash" sorry if u felt I did..good luck though...
                      "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Minnesota has the POST certification(Peace Officer Standards Training). I have heard Police is professional, but not a profession...therefore why have an official federal standard to go by?
                        In Memoriam:
                        Cpl. Chad Wayne Powell
                        USMC
                        Killed in Action
                        Fallujah, Iraq
                        June 23, 2005

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                        • #13
                          How is Law Enforcement not a profession?
                          Hail hail the gang's all here, when the going gets tough I know my friends will still be there. - Drop Kick Murphys, "The Gang's all Here"

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                          • #14
                            Irishlad has been mean to me too, so dont feel bad... Anyways, I think its a states' right to regulate its own law enforcement officers. There are not many things that are consistent from state to state in terms of regulatory matters, and those that are consistent are regulated pretty uniformly throughout the states at the state level. Hence, fed regulation seems pointless, and would just add another level of beauracry.
                            Also, the fed govt has no jurisdiction over state and local le matters. Their powers of arrest and regulation apply only to federal statutes and crimes, or crimes that take place over state borders, and therefore only apply to federal agents and agencies. Now, they could attempt to regulate diff aspects of state/local le by withholding federal funds and grants, and I am sure this goes on to some degree
                            And from a practical standpoint, the vast majority of law enforcement takes place at the state/local level (as was mentioned earlier), and so it makes sense that the state regulate its officers.
                            Also, LE is always in the news because it is an inherently volatile and explosive profession (and yes, I believe it is a profession). You are dealing with drugs, weapons, cars, life and death, and most importantly, peoples freedom. It makes for great news. Youre pitting an ignorant public and media against a defensive LE community . The two different factions are not on the same page, and we do things we are allowed to do, and the public thinks we are not allowed to do it, and makes for a big mess and a nice headline. This is a constant process, and no amount of regulation will erase this constant (unless you take away our LE power of arrest and use of force, in which case we'd be rendered ineffective).

                            All this is IMHP, but its just the way I see it.
                            press hard-5 copies

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                            • #15
                              The main reason that I asked the question that I did is simple.

                              I said maybe it would make it so officers wouldn't have to reapply etc etc. And somebody had said 'because departments have different standards and way of doing things'...

                              That is my main question. Why do we need departments to do things differently??? I think everybody should do things the same way. Why not?



                              And to answer your question welpe, there are certain criteria for a job to be a 'profession'...

                              1) The person applying must hold a minimum of a Bachelor's Degree
                              2) The person applying must have minimal training component (i.e. internship or residency)
                              3) There must be a Licensure Examination a the state and/or national level
                              4) There must be a public service tradeoff.


                              There it is.


                              -Z

                              Comment

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