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  • Bloodhounds and Missing children?

    I heard about a special type of blood hound that has so much scent power that the dog can track an individuals scent 10 days after the person has walked, or was in a car, under various conditions such as in conjested cities and even on a buizzy highways. My question is why arn't these dogs being utilized As Soon As Possible and more often to helplocate and find missing children?

    Thank You!

  • #2
    Dogs are often used immediately. We don't wait 10 days. The problem is they are usually put in cars by abductors and dogs can't follow the scent of cars.
    "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by retdetsgt
      Dogs are often used immediately. We don't wait 10 days. The problem is they are usually put in cars by abductors and dogs can't follow the scent of cars.
      Yes they can, according to a report I think I saw on Americas Most Wanted, a missing Denver, Colorado girl was tracked by a bloodhound 10 days after being abducted from a park in the city, the bloodhound tracked her scent from the vehicle, her remains were found out of city limits off the interstate along a dirt road.

      What breed of dog dose your department use for searches?

      Have you heard of the Jimmy Rice Foundation that offers free bloodhounds to Police Departments?
      http://www.jimmyryce.org/prevention/community.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Oops, I was wrong it wasn't in Denver it was Englewood
        and the bloodhound got on the scent 4 days not 10 days after the abduction.

        According to this article a bloodhound named Yogi tracked the missing 5 year old 4 days after being abducted. Nevertheless it isvery impresive.
        Article
        http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...983352,00.html

        Here's another article about it, and bloodhounds used to identify perps in lineups!
        http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/1996/jan964.txt

        The ALIE foundation was created by the parents of the missing girl, to aid LE in helping to find missing children
        http://www.alie.com/hounds.htm
        Last edited by sssalas; 04-13-2004, 01:15 AM.

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        • #5
          I'm not a dog handler, but I'm married to one. As it's been explained to me, these stories of dogs (many times bloodhounds) successfully completing these 'impossible' tracks are more myth than reality. In the case of the Englewood officer, which I believe is one of the longest confirmed cases of a days-old tracking, the conditions were near-perfect in terms of temperature, humidity, wind, etc.

          The use of dogs is still a very new science and there's a lot of bunk and misinformation out there. For example, during a recent nationally publicized search for a missing college student in our area, the local PD was searching high and low for a bloodhound to come in and do some tracking. Never mind that there were plenty of well-qualified non-bloodhound dogs in the area (both LE K9 and others) that were very capable of doing the same thing. But someone high enough up the chain of command felt they needed a bloodhound, so that's what they got. So they spent a couple of days letting the trail go cold while they worked to get an experienced bloodhound into the area to conduct the search.

          Another example. There's a woman in our state that works a bloodhound on a volunteer basis. The woman has made extraordinary claims about her dog's ability to track. As soon as word gets out about a potential missing person, she's on the phone to the family and anyone that will listen about how much help she can be. Yet she's never had a single find. When pressed about her training regimen by certain K9 officers who once worked with her, she actually said she and her dog "watch a lot of CSI."

          Dogs' abilities can be truly amazing, but they're seldom miraculous. To even get close to that level requires an incredible amount of training on both the part of the handler and the dog.
          Caution and worry never accomplished anything.

          Comment


          • #6
            Not everything you hear on TV is true and sometimes not even close to the truth. The story on AMW about Yogi finding the little girl from Englewood, CO. was to say the least a little exaggerated. Not saying that it is impossible for a dog to track someone from a moving vehicle, but it is highly unlikely. The whole idea behind a bloodhoud's tracking ability is that the dog is walking with its nose to the ground collecting scent cells from the ground with the help of the loose skin around its jowls. This is kinda hard to do traveling in a vehicle at 5 to 10 MPH, with its nose three to four feet off the ground. Or, driving in the direction the handler thinks the victim or lost person would be headed and stopping occasionally to see if the dog can still pickup the scent. This method is the handler guessing, not the dog tracking!

            Bloodhound are excellant dogs for what they do. But they are not going to track people from moving cars, for the most part they are not going to be able to follow a ten day old track. There are just too many variables that enter into a track that old: weather, other people crossing the track, other animals that have crossed the track, vehicles that have crossed the track, the possibilities are endless.

            Television tries to glamorize police service canines. A lot of what we do is not that glamorious, so they have to add some things to the story when they do a story on police service or any working/service canine.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by sssalas
              Yes they can, according to a report I think I saw on Americas Most Wanted, a missing Denver, Colorado girl was tracked by a bloodhound 10 days after being abducted from a park in the city, the bloodhound tracked her scent from the vehicle, her remains were found out of city limits off the interstate along a dirt road.

              What breed of dog dose your department use for searches?

              The dog tracked her while she was in the car? I seriously doubt that. They can track to and from a car, but not while the car is going down the road...

              We use German Shepards normally, but there are a group of Bloodhound owners who volunteer if we have a particularly difficult case.

              I did use a Bloodhound to track from where a dead body was found to the apt was she was killed. We used another dog and didn't tell the owner and got the same results. Based on that, we got a search warrant and an arrest and conviction.
              "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by retdetsgt
                The dog tracked her while she was in the car? I seriously doubt that. They can track to and from a car, but not while the car is going down the road...

                We use German Shepards normally, but there are a group of Bloodhound owners who volunteer if we have a particularly difficult case.

                I did use a Bloodhound to track from where a dead body was found to the apt was she was killed. We used another dog and didn't tell the owner and got the same results. Based on that, we got a search warrant and an arrest and conviction.
                Yes Yogi the bloodhound tracked 5 year old Alie when she was put in a car that took her about 14 miles away from the point of abduction. Alie's parents were so impressed by Yogi that they started The Alie Foundation that offers bloodhounds to Law Enforsement agencies nation wide.
                http://www.alie.com/hounds.htm
                (303) 662-8402
                ALIE Foundation
                P.O. Box 3673
                Englewood, CO
                80155

                Im glad you got a conviction! As far as I understand bloodhounds pick up a differant kind of scent than other dogs, and that they are regarded so reliable that bloodhounds have even been able to pick out perps in a line up, and that their evidence is so credible, it is admissible in court.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by sssalas
                  Yes Yogi the bloodhound tracked 5 year old Alie when she was put in a car that took her about 14 miles away from the point of abduction. Alie's parents were so impressed by Yogi that they started The Alie Foundation that offers bloodhounds to Law Enforsement agencies nation wide.
                  I have to still agree with Dawgguy though.... It goes against common sense. A good tracking dog slobbers a lot to moisten the scent so it's stronger. All the dog has is the tires on the ground. A kid in a car is going to be just about impossible to pick up and I suspect the car was going a lot faster than 5 to 10 mph. A lot of things look better on T.V. I bet they took the dog to the park along with a lot of other possible places and the dog picked up the scent again. It's good T.V. to say the dog tracked her all the way there.

                  Bloodhounds do some amazing things and I'm not being critical of them, but there are limits.
                  "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [Getting up on my soap box] I handled bloodhounds for over 10 years (own a retired one) and can tell you that they are amazing animals. Bloodhounds were "built" to track. Although other dogs can track, if you have a proven bloodhound available dont even waste the time to put another dog on the track. As far a television shows go, you do not run more than 1 dog at a time on a trail and I have never had my dogs or seen others howl during a track. Of course you have to train, train, train and in realistic conditions. You also need to know your dogs limitations (as well as yours) I would never give false claims about my dogs. I would not want to be the one responsible for putting someone's life in danger because I claimed that my dog was the best etc and then could not "put up" so to speak when someone in great need called for my help. Simply put, they are the best animal for that specific job if they (and you) are trained correctly. I'll get off my soap box now but if anyone wants more information PM me.
                    Dont think of it as losing, think of it as being beat by a girl!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kirch
                      I'm not a dog handler, but I'm married to one. As it's been explained to me, these stories of dogs (many times bloodhounds) successfully completing these 'impossible' tracks are more myth than reality. In the case of the Englewood officer, which I believe is one of the longest confirmed cases of a days-old tracking, the conditions were near-perfect in terms of temperature, humidity, wind, etc.

                      The use of dogs is still a very new science and there's a lot of bunk and misinformation out there. For example, during a recent nationally publicized search for a missing college student in our area, the local PD was searching high and low for a bloodhound to come in and do some tracking. Never mind that there were plenty of well-qualified non-bloodhound dogs in the area (both LE K9 and others) that were very capable of doing the same thing. But someone high enough up the chain of command felt they needed a bloodhound, so that's what they got. So they spent a couple of days letting the trail go cold while they worked to get an experienced bloodhound into the area to conduct the search.

                      Another example. There's a woman in our state that works a bloodhound on a volunteer basis. The woman has made extraordinary claims about her dog's ability to track. As soon as word gets out about a potential missing person, she's on the phone to the family and anyone that will listen about how much help she can be. Yet she's never had a single find. When pressed about her training regimen by certain K9 officers who once worked with her, she actually said she and her dog "watch a lot of CSI."

                      Dogs' abilities can be truly amazing, but they're seldom miraculous. To even get close to that level requires an incredible amount of training on both the part of the handler and the dog.
                      Thank you for sharing your story. I think the points you made are exactly why Police Departments should be the ones training and handleing these specialized dogs, and wouldn't have to wait for a trail to go cold and can imediately get bloodhounds on the trail of any missing person as soon as possible.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by retdetsgt
                        I have to still agree with Dawgguy though.... It goes against common sense. A good tracking dog slobbers a lot to moisten the scent so it's stronger. All the dog has is the tires on the ground.

                        Are you saying that bloodhounds dont slobber? You havent been around to many of them if you believe that. Besides tracking, slobbering is what they do best. They also have their own special stink to them, no matter how much you wash them. As far as the tires on the ground, do you think that if you are in a car, with all windows rolled up, that your scent does not have any way to get out of the car? If this were true you would not be able to smell things outside of your car while you were inside of the car. They can track people in cars, not only have I seen it done with other bloodhounds but I have done it with mine. Still, the freshness of the trail and the weather conditions etc do have a great deal to do with the dog being sucessful (along with the ever so important training).

                        Kirch, Did the bloodhound find the person?
                        Last edited by Rita; 04-13-2004, 04:18 PM.
                        Dont think of it as losing, think of it as being beat by a girl!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rita
                          Are you saying that bloodhounds dont slobber? You havent been around to many of them if you believe that. Besides tracking, slobbering is what they do best. They also have their own special stink to them, no matter how much you wash them. As far as the tires on the ground, do you think that if you are in a car, with all windows rolled up, that your scent does not have any way to get out of the car? If this were true you would not be able to smell things outside of your car while you were inside of the car. They can track people in cars, not only have I seen it done with other bloodhounds but I have done it with mine. Still, the freshness of the trail and the weather conditions etc do have a great deal to do with the dog being sucessful (along with the ever so important training).

                          Kirch, Did the bloodhound find the person?
                          Hi Rita

                          Thank You For Posting!

                          Im so glad that it is true, and not mearly a ficticious story, or a rare occurance for a bloodhound to track humans in cars.

                          Ive heard of some handlers making it a point to train their bloodhounds to track in differant weather conditions, that is so cool.

                          I sure wish that every police department had bloodhounds to help them track people in all differant kinds of situatiions, it's such a worthy cause that I can easily see even the public helping with the funding of such programs. As anyone even common criminals fear for their children being abducted, and would want the best dogs available, and might even be a way to bridge challenging crime infested comunities.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am lucky to live in an area where our "head honcho" believes in bloodhounds. Some people do not see them as real "police dogs" and in certain aspects they are not, but as I said before, when it comes to tracking, they are the dog for the job. PM me if you want more info on the things that I have personally see these animals do.
                            Dont think of it as losing, think of it as being beat by a girl!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rita
                              Are you saying that bloodhounds dont slobber? You havent been around to many of them if you believe that. Besides tracking, slobbering is what they do best.
                              No, I didn't say that. They slobber better than you read perhaps... Read what you cut and pasted again...

                              And I definitely know they stink... We had one our PR guy used as Off. McGruff. The SOB transported the damn dog in my detective car once on my day off. I had to send the car to be detailed to get the stink out!
                              Last edited by retdetsgt; 04-13-2004, 09:12 PM.
                              "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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