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Scenario Question... crowd control?

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  • Scenario Question... crowd control?

    Hello officers! First off, thank you all for your services. I am currently in the academy and in the academy we were shown a video about a local agency dealing with a situation... here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRC7MIbKqRY

    So, in class we were really just talking about the "ask them, tell them, make them" and that the officers took way too long with the taser so that's not my question. My question is what to do with the crowd of people? I know they "have a right to be there" but i could imagine that being incredibly distracting to the officer's job... is there anything an officer can do to separate the subject from this group to make putting him into custody easier?


    Thanks in advance for any information.

  • #2
    The academy wants YOUR answer to the problem. Not answers from experienced LEO's
    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
      The academy wants YOUR answer to the problem. Not answers from experienced LEO's
      We already discussed it for the point of the lesson this was just me thinking a step further. My idea would be pull the subject away from the crowd but in the location like a public beach... it would be hard to do so, so I'm just curious the options there are. Is it a fair assumption to have the area around the subject to be considered a "crime scene" or "investigation" and anyone coming into that area as interfering?

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      • #4
        I feel like I just saw this post.
        The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed.

        I Am the Sheepdog.


        "And maybe just remind the few, if ill of us they speak,
        that we are all that stands between
        the monsters and the weak." - Michael Marks


        sigpic

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        • #5
          Bystanders have a right to be there; they don't have the right to obstruct or interfere.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by just joe View Post
            Bystanders have a right to be there; they don't have the right to obstruct or interfere.
            If they obstruct and you tell them to stay away and they don't... are you legally justified to detain them until the situation is over?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CharlesInCharge23 View Post
              If they obstruct and you tell them to stay away and they don't... are you legally justified to detain them until the situation is over?
              You arrest them for obstruction and transport them to jail.

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              • #8
                Videos are like a two sided sword which cuts both ways. In some ways they can help officers better understand a situation and employ different tactics but in other ways they do not tell the whole story. That can often lead to arm chair courage in that the viewer says what they would have done without having to deal with all of the real situations as they were happening.

                With that being said there is a lot to be said for speed cuffing a subject. Within the first minute, the male officer has the subjects hands behind his back and yet he doesn't handcuff the subject. The subject is able to break free of the officers hand hold a couple of times (using a distraction technique (ie knee strike to the common peroneal) is often helpful before employing an arm bar) and still the officer has trouble handcuffing the subject.

                I am not really sure what you meant by pulling the subject away from the crowd. At some point in your academy I am sure they are going to teach handcuffing and defensive tactics. Believe it or not, we didn't always have tasers. Sometimes we had to go hands on with someone who didn't want to be arrested. Best thing you can take away from the video is IF you are arresting someone, do so quickly and efficiently.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JonathanE View Post
                  Videos are like a two sided sword which cuts both ways. In some ways they can help officers better understand a situation and employ different tactics but in other ways they do not tell the whole story. That can often lead to arm chair courage in that the viewer says what they would have done without having to deal with all of the real situations as they were happening.

                  With that being said there is a lot to be said for speed cuffing a subject. Within the first minute, the male officer has the subjects hands behind his back and yet he doesn't handcuff the subject. The subject is able to break free of the officers hand hold a couple of times (using a distraction technique (ie knee strike to the common peroneal) is often helpful before employing an arm bar) and still the officer has trouble handcuffing the subject.

                  I am not really sure what you meant by pulling the subject away from the crowd. At some point in your academy I am sure they are going to teach handcuffing and defensive tactics. Believe it or not, we didn't always have tasers. Sometimes we had to go hands on with someone who didn't want to be arrested. Best thing you can take away from the video is IF you are arresting someone, do so quickly and efficiently.
                  I'm in DT right now and I've learned arm bar and different take downs but in a different class where we were talking about crowd management they told us to separate the "leader" to kind of get away from the rest of his group from egging him on. But in this situation, a public beach, i dont know where they could accomplish that... unless like just joe said and just arrest them for obstruction

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CharlesInCharge23 View Post
                    I'm in DT right now and I've learned arm bar and different take downs but in a different class where we were talking about crowd management they told us to separate the "leader" to kind of get away from the rest of his group from egging him on. But in this situation, a public beach, i dont know where they could accomplish that... unless like just joe said and just arrest them for obstruction
                    Apples and Oranges. First off, we really do not know why the officers placed the subject under arrest but they made the decision to arrest the subject. Crowd control is a different animal and a whole different discussion.

                    Go back and watch the video. How many times does the officer have the subjects hands behind his back? How long is it before the officer actually applies handcuffs to wrist? Cuff the subject up and then take him away. Chances are that once you take that subject away the crowd will disperse. If not, those that follow and continue to obstruct can be dealt with, especially since the main subject is handcuffed. Notice how the situation continues to spin out of control because the subject is not handcuffed. Whatever the situation, don't dither in handcuffing an individual with whom you are going to arrest.

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                    • #11
                      I will echo the sentiments from others that when you choose to make an arrest, you need to safely secure the subject as quickly as possible. That means quickly getting them secured in handcuffs and away from their audience. Secondly, if you need to use force, you need to use reasonable, necessary, and effective force as quickly as possible. The longer the arrest takes the more it will escalate and the chances increase that someone will be hurt as a result.
                      "Screw that. We can make bullets faster than they can make terrorists. Kill them all. Every last one." -Interceptor

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                      • #12
                        Make him an example to the rest of the crowd.... and when it hits youtube or facebook..... stand behind your decision to render him unconscious for the good of humanity! No one likes a panzy
                        sigpic

                        "When a police officer is killed, it's not an agency that loses an officer, it's an entire nation." -Chris Cosgriff, ODMP Founder

                        http://www.odmp.org/

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                        • #13
                          Yes.. yes, i know! Im currently enrolled in sensitivity training, per chief!

                          No need to write him a nasty gram.
                          sigpic

                          "When a police officer is killed, it's not an agency that loses an officer, it's an entire nation." -Chris Cosgriff, ODMP Founder

                          http://www.odmp.org/

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