Straw purchase?

[RClar93]

So last night my buddy (military service member) attempted to purchase a S&W .40 caliber handgun from a sports outlet in my town. They ran the background on him and apparently even with a Secret Clearance and being in the military (Lautenberg Amendment is the point I'm attempting to make), his background got shot down.

He wasn't upset, his name is very common and he just decided to go to the PX on post and purchase his weapon there. He then told me about the firearm and I was intrigued and wanted to purchase it.

So I brought him to the store with me and attempted to purchase it (integrity is a big thing with me, so hear me out lol).

The background came back clean but the manager accused me of being a straw person and refused to sell me the weapon. I dropped the entire subject because I'm not much into conflict, and I understand how that would look being on the opposite side of the scenario.

I'm just curious as to whether or not this will go into anything NCIC or through the TBI on my record. If it's just a spur of the moment thing I could care less, but if this is something that will follow me around I'm going to obviously have some clarifying to do.

[Iowa #1603]

Why would you take him with you ? Makes absolutely no sense.

Obviously the FFL dealer thought so too----------------------HIS integrity should be commended.


Your scenario really makes no sense to me----------------once again why would you do that.?

[RClar93]

The timeline was:

- Load weapons
- Buy new weapon
- Go to range
- Shoot
- Go home
- Clean weapons
- Drink beer

The plan went according to plan except for the 2nd item lol. I'm in no way upset at the salesman. I see his point of view. The only reason he was with me is because we were enroute to the range directly after.

I'm just wondering if this is going to go on my background.

[eaker995]

I agree with Iowa that it is rather strange but to answer purely your question, no.

You were not arrested nor charged. A salesman can not enter information in NCIC or any other system. This is no different than the Class Six clerk refusing to sell you a bottle because they think you are buying it for a minor. A clerk can refuse service.

For the future, don't take someone who has just been refused an item for ANY reason back into a store to buy the same item. Looks fishy. And if you ever do make such a straw purchase, the ATF May be the next people you talk to.

Edit: after rereading your post, since you brought it up, if there is a Lautenberg issue, you may need to find someone else to hang out with. Domestic Violence isn't something to mess with.

[tanksoldier]

I'm just curious as to whether or not this will go into anything NCIC or through the TBI on my record.

Depends on whether he reported you to local LE or the ATF.

As already mentioned your story is suspicious. I wouldn't have sold you the gun either... and your buddy having a Secret military clearance is irrelevant. A Secret clearance is checked only every 10 years unless something specific is reported to the military.

[RClar93]

I appreciate you answering the specific question. To clarify, the individual is a service member, meaning anything that would disqualify him from purchasing a firearm would disqualify him from serving in the military. I was using the Lautenberg Amendment as an example. He called the state Bureau of Investigations today after we went to the range and the result was that he simply has a common name and was confused on the background with someone else.

I don't mean to offend, Iowa. What I'm going to say next could easily be construed as such. I respect your experience in this field and I understand how you'd be suspicious of why he came with me; but I'm not -that guy-. My future will be law enforcement so I tread very lightly on how I live my life. I suppose I'm slightly butthurt about your reply, but then again you have no idea who I am so I can see where you'd have your immediate opinions.

He got the S&W if anyone is wondering. I don't even want to go back to the store and try to get it after the way that manager acted. The salesman was very polite and expressed his reasoning, but the manager was about two tiers shy of having a seizure about it.

Thanks again.

[just joe]

You might be a little upset as well if you were looking at being criminally prosecuted and losing you business.

[tanksoldier]

but I'm not -that guy-.

1. Everybody says that, whether they're that guy or not.
2. The gun dealer doesn't know or care whether you're that guy. He isn't willing to risk his business and his liberty to sell one handgun.
3. We're cops. Your story is plausible, but also somewhat suspicious. MOST honest people wouldn't do what you did... MANY people making a straw purchase would do exactly what you did.

[RClar93]

I get where you're coming from but I find it a little overwhelming knowing that ATF could come arrest me for something I genuinely didn't have intent to do.

To be brutally honest it was more of me screwing my buddy by trying to get the 30% off sale he wanted so badly lol.

Now I'm sketching out...I'll contact an attorney tomorrow. I might be overreacting to this entire situation but if they can prosecute me simply because I had a decent deal fall into my lap, that doesn't seem right.

[TJ_208]

So last night my buddy (military service member) attempted to purchase a S&W .40 caliber handgun from a sports outlet in my town. They ran the background on him and apparently even with a Secret Clearance and being in the military (Lautenberg Amendment is the point I'm attempting to make), his background got shot down.

He wasn't upset, his name is very common and he just decided to go to the PX on post and purchase his weapon there. He then told me about the firearm and I was intrigued and wanted to purchase it.

So I brought him to the store with me and attempted to purchase it (integrity is a big thing with me, so hear me out lol).

The background came back clean but the manager accused me of being a straw person and refused to sell me the weapon. I dropped the entire subject because I'm not much into conflict, and I understand how that would look being on the opposite side of the scenario.

I'm just curious as to whether or not this will go into anything NCIC or through the TBI on my record. If it's just a spur of the moment thing I could care less, but if this is something that will follow me around I'm going to obviously have some clarifying to do.

Your buddy failed a NICS background investigation and then immediately went and passed one somewhere else?

That sounds unbelievable also. I know NICS makes mistakes and you can request to have it appealed. But I highly doubt your buddy failed one went to a different store and then passed a second.

[JDCOP]

I've heard of failing the TICS background once and then later being approved another purchase without doing an appeal. I wouldn't sweat it if he was actually legally allowed to purchase the firearm no crime was being committed. Even if the dealer notified the TBI or ATF once they looked the records it would be clear no law was violated or attempted to be violated.

[Iowa #1603]

. To clarify, the individual is a service member, meaning anything that would disqualify him from purchasing a firearm would disqualify him from serving in the military.

Not necessarily--------------------it is VERY common that people enter the military, serve for a awhile , then get in trouble . Sometimes that "trouble" doesn't catch up with them for a while or doesn't get reported to their military chain of command real fast

Yea, it is VERY possible that he COULD have had a disqualifying event that the military hadn't found out about yet but had been reported to the NICS database

I don't mean to offend, Iowa. What I'm going to say next could easily be construed as such. I respect your experience in this field and I understand how you'd be suspicious of why he came with me; but I'm not -that guy-. My future will be law enforcement so I tread very lightly on how I live my life. I suppose I'm slightly butthurt about your reply, but then again you have no idea who I am so I can see where you'd have your immediate opinions.

And really I don't care who you are.

I am replying to what I read on the Internet----------The way thing "worked out" is suspicious...............Sorry if you are offended , but after a few decades of investigating things, I suppose my thought process is a bit jaded. I STILL don't see why anyone would think it was a good idea to bring a guy who had just been denied buying a gun into the store when you are going to buy the same gun

YOUR thought process wasn't working well with that decision.

But as you know , on this forum you are NOT going to ever get sugar coated replies

To be brutally honest it was more of me screwing my buddy by trying to get the 30% off sale he wanted so badly lol.

Then I read this--------------------------------------

Being a smart ARSE really paid off didn't it?

[Iowa #1603]

I've heard of failing the TICS background once and then later being approved another purchase without doing an appeal. I wouldn't sweat it if he was actually legally allowed to purchase the firearm no crime was being committed. Even if the dealer notified the TBI or ATF once they looked the records it would be clear no law was violated or attempted to be violated.

I agree

[eaker995]

As I has said before, you are fine as long as you didn't make the purchase and sell it to your friend. This would make it a straw purchase. The fact the store refused to well it takes away that factor so it is not and they are unable to enter it into any system to pop up on a background. Contact an attorney if you want but they will tell you the same thing

I do feel I need to clear up some issues with you though. We hear a lot of people tell a story but they always omit information that makes them look bad. We see the same thing in your post. That's why it looks suspicious.

Your friend being in the military and a secret clearance means nothing. You are incorrect in saying that anything that may prevent him from buying a weapon, he couldn't serve. I was an MP for many years. There are literally thousands of service members with low level felonies serving and have clearances. Everything from domestic violence to drugs to DUI. A felony conviction takes away your right to a weapon but doesn't kick you out.

Before you question experience or what we do and don't know, I'm good at what I do. Your tattoos can cause issues so be careful what and where you get it in the future. The Army may accept it but some LE agencies don't and some psychological issues can keep you out of this career as well. Just for future reference. We do know where we are coming from. So why didn't the Marines work out? Was Sgt Rivera not able to get you in?

[PhilipCal]

You're getting butt hurt a little too easily. Know what, I'm probably going to give you a little more BH. That's not really my intention, but simply to put things into perspective.

Let's begin: Each of my colleagues, all of them, have told you what we assume you came to us for. The pure, unvarnished truth. Had i been the manager of the store you referenced, I too would have entertained the thought that a "straw purchase". was about to me made. Let me tell you that the BATF has absolutely no sense of humor on those issues.

If I'm running a sporting goods store, and I sell firearms and ammunition, my FFL is one of my prize possessions. I don't intend to part with it in other words. So, if in that mindset, I turn someone away, (you in this instance) then that's simply too bad. And to add a further point, if you're that easily offended at what a business man did to protect his interests, then perhaps you should reconsider your stated goal of joining this profession.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm big on the Second Amendment. I'm also big on a business man/woman protecting their interests/ livelihood as well. The other points, ie, clearances, Lautenberg, have been amply covered by my colleagues.