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Having a college diploma when apply seems useless

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  • slamdunc
    replied
    Originally posted by CruiserClass View Post
    Most places care way more about your ability to interact with different kinds of people easily, to learn, to adapt to a changing environment, etc. Its one reason military experience is often seen as preferable to college. College doesn't give you the same experience with diversity and problem solving as the military does.
    ^^^This^^^ and more of ^^^This^^^.

    Leave a comment:


  • CruiserClass
    replied
    Originally posted by Legion90 View Post
    I don't want to be captain obvious, and I'm sure I forgot to state it in the beginning, but I graduated from a 4 year university, and not just meeting the minimum qualification.
    Hiring boards don't care. Your own experience is showing you this. A 4 year degree is better than a 2 year degree which is better than no degree, but its not enough to distinguish you from the herd by itself. Life experience, foreign languages, special skills, those things can set you apart from all the other drones with a degree but nothing else.

    I sincerely believe I was hired because of my experience overseas. I could talk in the oral boards about my experience living abroad, supervising people from multiple and varied cultures, etc. Most places care way more about your ability to interact with different kinds of people easily, to learn, to adapt to a changing environment, etc. Its one reason military experience is often seen as preferable to college. College doesn't give you the same experience with diversity and problem solving as the military does.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zeitgeist
    replied
    consider moving, some parts of the country are hiring more than others.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by miketheberkeleygrad View Post
    There is much more to it than simply having the 4-year degree. Trust me - I got hired at 24 with nothing but a 4-year English degree and retail/security experience under my belt.

    It really boils down to how you deliver yourself in your interview, and of course how well you score on the other components of the hiring process.

    The oral board is your one chance to give the interviewers your version of your experience, and what that experience is worth. Look back on your education, your customer service experience, and think about the intangible lessons you learned along the way. Think about how your experience gave you skills in relation to the core competencies outlined by L-1 above. Be confident, project that version of your resume in your interview, and you'll definitely impress the board (or at least you're more likely to…).

    With all that being said, your education was absolutely crucial and without it you would be behind the curve.
    I have told this story before so I am going to use the Cliff's Notes version this time-----------------------

    A number of years ago my partner and I were interviewing new candidates. This guy came in that looked perfect on papers. 4 yr degree, Interviewed in a 3 piece suit, polite, answered the questions WELL with in parameters. WE SHOULD HAVE recommended the boss hire him.

    BUT both of us had the hair on the back of our necks stand up during the interview. We didn't know why but he gave us the creeps.

    Long story short------------we scored the interview very strictly and he ended up with points that justified us NOT recommending hire. & The boss choose to follow our recommendation.


    To this day I don't know why we were uncomfortable with the candidate.

    6 months after the interview the candidate was arrested by Federal Authorities who had been investigating him for the last 18 months.

    Leave a comment:


  • L-1
    replied
    Originally posted by Legion90 View Post
    I don't want to be captain obvious, and I'm sure I forgot to state it in the beginning, but I graduated from a 4 year university, and not just meeting the minimum qualification.
    You're still missing it. Simply having a degree doesn't get you the job. I know guys with multiple degrees who are members of Mensa but who don't have an ounce of common sense and would make lousy cops.

    There are two things to remember.

    1. Cops are hired based on their demonstrated ability to perform the duties of the job they are seeking. This is measured by the number of correct answers given on written and oral exams that ask job related questions about the position they are seeking. Successful candidates are hired in the order of their scores (highest first, next highest second, etc.)

    2. If 100 people apply but there are only five vacancies, 95 candidates are going to be disappointed and not get hired, no matter how qualified they are. It's just basic math.

    Leave a comment:


  • tanksoldier
    replied
    A degree isn't useless, it's a big help. I bet most of your competitors have that, and more. That's the problem.

    Many applicants have a degree, military experience and some form of service-connected disability which often gives them extra points in the hiring process.

    Your nerves in the interview aren't helping. If you can't be cool during an interview, you may have problems being cool on the street. You need to work on that, good suggestions are given above.

    Leave a comment:


  • cantorzorn
    replied
    Originally posted by Legion90 View Post
    Thank you sir, I will definitely give that a try. In your opinion, do you still having a strong education background helps?
    A strong academic background only helps if you can demonstrate to the board how that translates to you being a better candidate. "Yes sir, while I have never experienced this particular situation personally, based on my own personal experiences and my training in college on human behavior theories, I would attempt to approach this problem in this manner...

    Leave a comment:


  • cantorzorn
    replied
    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
    The profession is extremely comptetitive right now

    Bottom line is in order to get hired you have to EXCELL at every part of the process from testing to interviewing.

    Reading your short post, I dont' see any reason why NOT to hire you, However I can see a few reason why you aren't getting hired

    It appears you are overly nervous during the process-----------------that would come off as a MINUS or a RED FLAG

    It also could mean that the people interviewing you don't see you as confident enough to make it in the profession.......................


    Try Toastmaster International http://www.toastmasters.org/

    and get some experience speaking and confidence in oral exchanges
    Great advice about toastmasters. My first promotional assessment center was a little rough. I was ****ed that I didn't do better and was very nervous during it. luckily I stil got promoted off the list but swore I would do better next time. I found and joined toastmasters and man did that help with every aspect for being prepared to present your best possible self. Next process I ended up number 2.I attribute it to the toastmaster meetings I attended and took seriously.

    Leave a comment:


  • slamdunc
    replied
    Originally posted by BaylorBearSW View Post
    I applied to a small agency of about 15 sworn during my police academy and I have a B.A. from a school with a pretty good reputation. I was not selected, but the chief was one of the instructors during the academy and during graduation I was able to speak with him. He basically said, I was not chosen because I was competition for those on the interview board. Out of the 15 officers, none had a degree, that includes the chief. He told me they basically said why hire this kid, with a degree, to take our jobs and move up faster than us. I'm not saying this is true everywhere, but just a little food for thought.
    I'd go as far to say that it's not true ANYWHERE. Sounds like someone is delusional for telling you something like that; I'm glad you didn't believe it.

    Leave a comment:


  • BaylorBearSW
    replied
    I applied to a small agency of about 15 sworn during my police academy and I have a B.A. from a school with a pretty good reputation. I was not selected, but the chief was one of the instructors during the academy and during graduation I was able to speak with him. He basically said, I was not chosen because I was competition for those on the interview board. Out of the 15 officers, none had a degree, that includes the chief. He told me they basically said why hire this kid, with a degree, to take our jobs and move up faster than us. I'm not saying this is true everywhere, but just a little food for thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • miketheberkeleygrad
    replied
    There is much more to it than simply having the 4-year degree. Trust me - I got hired at 24 with nothing but a 4-year English degree and retail/security experience under my belt.

    It really boils down to how you deliver yourself in your interview, and of course how well you score on the other components of the hiring process.

    The oral board is your one chance to give the interviewers your version of your experience, and what that experience is worth. Look back on your education, your customer service experience, and think about the intangible lessons you learned along the way. Think about how your experience gave you skills in relation to the core competencies outlined by L-1 above. Be confident, project that version of your resume in your interview, and you'll definitely impress the board (or at least you're more likely to…).

    With all that being said, your education was absolutely crucial and without it you would be behind the curve.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by Legion90 View Post
    Someone told me that departments look down on you if you apply to too many departments, and that it's considered a red flag, is that true?
    No, most agencies today are more than aware that nearly everyone is applying to mutliple agenceis

    Leave a comment:


  • Legion90
    replied
    Someone told me that departments look down on you if you apply to too many departments, and that it's considered a red flag, is that true?

    Leave a comment:


  • allen_gamble
    replied
    Originally posted by slamdunc View Post
    With a degree in criminal justice? How many other well-qualified candidates have the same degree? How many have work / life experiences to augment that degree? How many have military experience as well?

    Adding to that, how many people were applying for how many positions? If you're applying to small or medium sized departments, it's gonna be even tougher. You might need to apply to some really large departments that are hiring hundreds of officers each year.

    I would not advise getting more education because you think the number of degrees on your resume is going to land you a job. I went down that road. Spent 3 years getting a JD because I thought employers would just be throwing job offers at me. I wasn't paying attention to the fact that there are already WAY too many lawyers out there.

    If LE is what you want to do, I would just keep applying.

    On a similar note, my brother had wanted to be a firefighter since he was in high school. He was an FD Explorer, went to college and got a Masters in Fire Protection Engineering. Graduated and then got rejected twice from the department he wanted. But he kept applying, and now he's a firefighter in an even bigger city.

    Leave a comment:


  • slamdunc
    replied
    Originally posted by Legion90 View Post
    I don't want to be captain obvious, and I'm sure I forgot to state it in the beginning, but I graduated from a 4 year university, and not just meeting the minimum qualification.
    With a degree in criminal justice? How many other well-qualified candidates have the same degree? How many have work / life experiences to augment that degree? How many have military experience as well?

    Leave a comment:

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