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Enlisted or Officer? And best military job for law enforcement

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  • 31BLaxer
    replied
    Theres a Soldier down the hall from my office who has a masters in some kind of engineering and he's an E5.....

    The military is full of a lot of college grads who choose to enter as an enlisted member...some just didn't want to go through the hassle of OCS/ROTC but for whatever reason decided to enlist....

    Leave a comment:


  • Che
    replied
    Interesting topic indeed. A four year degree does not give you a commission in the military.

    The OP might join the military and stay there for 30 years. He might find out that being a LEO is not that great of a job either. He might have "ZERO" aptitude for our job.

    Leave a comment:


  • CruiserClass
    replied
    Originally posted by slamdunc View Post
    I couldn't agree more; equating military rank to success is an automatic fail. I have seen Specialists who were highly-motivated, worked their guts out and the recognition for their work was given to someone 'higher'; this is the nature of the beast.
    True enough. Much like medals (both military and on the police department) what you do is only part of the equation. Who sees you do it is at least equally important.

    Leave a comment:


  • slamdunc
    replied
    Ordinary men doing extraordinary things when called upon to do so. It makes me even more proud to be an American.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by slamdunc View Post
    I did not dig that deep into it. The number of junior enlisted soldiers receiving the MOH was merely going toward my point. I am now a bit curious and when I get back from vacation, I intend to do further research.
    Here is another interesting one----as a Staff Sgt AND then a SECOND Lieutentant

    Pulled from the front near Cassino, the 3rd Division took part in the landings at Anzio on January 22, 1944. During the course of the fighting around Anzio, Murphy, now a staff sergeant, earned two Bronze Stars for heroism in action. The first was awarded for his actions on March 2 and the second for destroying a German tank on May 8. With the fall of Rome in June, Murphy and the 3rd Division were withdrawn and began preparing to land in Southern France as part of Operation Dragoon. Embarking, the division landed near St. Tropez on August 15.
    Murphy's Heroism in France:

    On the day he came ashore, Murphy's good friend Lattie Tipton was killed by German soldier who was feigning surrender. Incensed, Murphy stormed forward and single-handedly wiped out the enemy machine gun nest before using the German weapon to clear several adjacent German positions. For his heroism he was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross. As the 3rd Division drove north into France, Murphy continued his outstanding performance in combat. On October 2 he won a Silver Star for clearing a machine gun position near Cleurie Quarry. This was followed by second award for advancing to direct artillery near Le Tholy.

    In recognition of Murphy's stellar performance, he received a battlefield commission to second lieutenant on October 14. Now leading his platoon, Murphy was wounded in the hip later that month and spent ten weeks recovering. Returning to his unit still bandaged, he was made company commander on January 25, 1945, and promptly took some shrapnel from an exploding mortar round. Remaining in command, his company went into action the next day along the south edge of the Riedwihr Woods near Holtzwihr, France. Under heavy enemy pressure and with only nineteen men remaining, Murphy ordered the survivors to fall back.

    As they withdrew, Murphy remained in place providing covering fire. Expending his ammunition, he climbed atop a burning M10 tank destroyer and used its .50 cal. machine gun to hold the Germans at bay while also calling in artillery fire on the enemy position. Despite being wounded in the leg, Murphy continued this fight for nearly an hour until his men began moving forward again. Organizing a counterattack, Murphy, aided by air support, drove the Germans from Holtzwihr. In recognition of his stand, he received the Medal of Honor on June 2, 1945.

    Leave a comment:


  • slamdunc
    replied
    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
    Curious.....................did you check their rank on the date of the incident, or the date of the award?
    I did not dig that deep into it. The number of junior enlisted soldiers receiving the MOH was merely going toward my point. I am now a bit curious and when I get back from vacation, I intend to do further research.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by slamdunc View Post
    I went to the US Army Medal of Honor list and went through only the A's. Out of 47 MOH recipients, 24 were E-1 through E-4, 11 were E-5 through E-7, 2 were E-8, and 10 were O-1 through O-5. Although this has no relevance to the issue at hand, it shows that lower enlisted (E-1 through E-5) either had a lot of self-initiative OR their seniors ordered them to go blindly into a situation and they were successful.
    Curious.....................did you check their rank on the date of the incident, or the date of the award?
    Sal Guinta, who was the first living recipient of the MOH since the Viet Nam War was a Specialist in October 2007 when his actions in the Korengal Valley, Afghanistan, brought him to the attention of his command.

    By November 16, 2010 when he was awarded the Medal at the White House, he was a Staff Sergeant.

    As I read through the citations I found this to be somewhat common...............

    Leave a comment:


  • slamdunc
    replied
    Originally posted by CruiserClass View Post
    Its no where near the same as saying their career is mediocre. That assumes that the only thing that matters in military promotions is merit, and that the only measure of "success" is moving up through the ranks. That's laughable.
    I couldn't agree more; equating military rank to success is an automatic fail. I have seen Specialists who were highly-motivated, worked their guts out and the recognition for their work was given to someone 'higher'; this is the nature of the beast.

    I am sure that 31BLaxer worked hard for everything he got; you don't make it to E-8 without being well above average. For some reason, he just can't get past the word mediocre without thinking someone is pointing a finger.

    I went to the US Army Medal of Honor list and went through only the A's. Out of 47 MOH recipients, 24 were E-1 through E-4, 11 were E-5 through E-7, 2 were E-8, and 10 were O-1 through O-5. Although this has no relevance to the issue at hand, it shows that lower enlisted (E-1 through E-5) either had a lot of self-initiative OR their seniors ordered them to go blindly into a situation and they were successful.

    Leave a comment:


  • CruiserClass
    replied
    Originally posted by 31BLaxer View Post
    I totally understand but its the same as saying the individuals career as a whole was mediocre...nevermind, not getting through....To the OP, Choose a branch that best suits YOUR needs and wants.
    Its no where near the same as saying their career is mediocre. That assumes that the only thing that matters in military promotions is merit, and that the only measure of "success" is moving up through the ranks. That's laughable.

    Different MOS's have different promotion point scores, different numbers of available positions, etc. You can be a super squared away military intelligence poge, and you aren't getting promoted as easily as a combat engineer or infantry grunt.

    You know how promotion scores, primary zones, and secondary zones work. You know that in a short MOS you move up faster and in an overstaffed MOS you move up slower. You know that time in grade matters for your next promotion, so if you stall at E-5 and E-6 because the points are ridiculously high and there's no or few slots for your MOS that's going to hurt you making E-7 and E-8 before you hit 20.

    If you want to believe everyone is above average, your rank indicates the worth of your career, etc, knock yourself out. Most of us know better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
    Only time you had no issues is when you were hiding from the cameras....
    I was successful

    Leave a comment:


  • Bearcat357
    replied
    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
    I eventually chose to promote and actually found that to be the worst mistake that I made in 30 yrs of Law Enforcement.
    Only time you had no issues is when you were hiding from the cameras....

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
    Most stayed that way because they saw what happened to friends that got/took promotions and wanted nothing to do with it......as it tends to make your life more miserable and getting out o LE work and doing desk crap.....

    Thus the below quote
    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
    I eventually chose to promote and actually found that to be the worst mistake that I made in 30 yrs of Law Enforcement.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bearcat357
    replied
    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post

    In the civilian police ranks -------------remaining a patrol officer, patrolman, or deputy does not make one's career mediocre.
    I know plenty of Trooper that were Troopers for 20 plus years....same with some dudes/dudettes with KCPD.....they were Officers from start to finished and loved it.....

    Most stayed that way because they saw what happened to friends that got/took promotions and wanted nothing to do with it......as it tends to make your life more miserable and getting out o LE work and doing desk crap.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by 31BLaxer View Post
    I totally understand but its the same as saying the individuals career as a whole was mediocre...nevermind, not getting through....To the OP, Choose a branch that best suits YOUR needs and wants.
    No, it is you that is not understanding.


    In the civilian police ranks -------------remaining a patrol officer, patrolman, or deputy does not make one's career mediocre.

    There is no push to move up or move out in a police department/sheriff's office or state police agency. It is totally possible to have an excellent career and never wish to promote from the basic rank.

    I spent a good portion of my career not wanting to go any higher than "officer" I eventually chose to promote and actually found that to be the worst mistake that I made in 30 yrs of Law Enforcement.

    My career would have been far from mediocre had I chose to remain an officer like I really wanted. I really did my best work at the "grunt" rank. That job description had the most job satisfaction than any position I held.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bearcat357
    replied
    If I was to do it all over again....I'd get on with a AF Flight Crew as a Loadmaster.

    Travel the world, get hooked up with a University/College that does online stuff and get your degree or a huge chunk out it knocked out......

    From there...either go 20 then get out and get into LE.....or get into LE after 4 years. Either way would be a very good route......

    Just me...

    Leave a comment:

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