Concealed Knife Laws (VA)

[don757]

I live in VA and was wondering if anyone VA police officers or those familiar with VA's laws knew if it would be legal for me to conceal carry my fixed blade neck knife?

Here's what the statue says:

§ 18.2-308. Carrying concealed weapons; exceptions; penalty.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

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[Iowa #1603]

I live in VA and was wondering if anyone VA police officers or those familiar with VA's laws knew if it would be legal for me to conceal carry my fixed blade neck knife?

Here's what the statue says:


§ 18.2-308. Carrying concealed weapons; exceptions; penalty.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

Seems pretty clear to me

[Michigan]

I'm shocked ccw is a misdemeanor in your state.

[don757]

Seems pretty clear to me

You would classify the knife in question as a bowie knife?

[mdrdep]

In California it would be defined as a dirk or dagger, which is interpreted in case law as any fixed bladed stabbing instrument. Since "dirk" is included in VA list of prohibited concealed items, I would say it's a violation.

[don757]

I'm shocked ccw is a misdemeanor in your state.

Well, even though a first conviction is a misdemeanor, any subsequent conviction is a felony, and it is a felony for a convicted felon to ccw under any situation. I also believe it's a felon for anyone to use a weapon during a commission of a crime. Makes since to me not to make a life long felon out of a previous law abiding citizen who isn't committing a crime, but could have mistakenly had a razor, for example, in his or her pocket.

[Iowa #1603]

You would classify the knife in question as a bowie knife?

I would agree with mdrdep...................it would be a dirk or dagger.

[Iowa #1603]

, but could have mistakenly had a razor, for example, in his or her pocket.

A "razor" in that statute was actually talking about a STRAIGHT RAZOR , not a safety razor.

No one mistakenly carries a straight razor around in their pocket

[PhilipCal]

A "razor" in that statute was actually talking about a STRAIGHT RAZOR , not a safety razor.

No one mistakenly carries a straight razor around in their pocket

Well actually, I can think of one individual who might indeed, attempt such a feat. Once again i draw your attention to the quote in blue for further aid in identifying the CIQ (Clown in Question).

[don757]

A "razor" in that statute was actually talking about a STRAIGHT RAZOR , not a safety razor.

No one mistakenly carries a straight razor around in their pocket

I agree that is probably what they meant, but being that a "straight razor" isn't specifically expressed in the code while the code went into detail about distinguishing all variants and/or named the other weapons specifically, I wouldn't put it pass a prosecutor or an officer being able successfully charge someone with carrying a razor. But now that you mention it, that maybe what they meant.

I don't think the code is written very well because for the average citizen (especially a knife person/collector) who doesn't follow case law but viewed the code, the knife I wanted to carry really isn't a dirk, dagger, or bowie knife which are all larger fighting knifes that have a choil, are set in a hilt, and/or (by very definition which distinguishes them from other type of knives) have 2 sharp cutting edges on either side rather than the typical 1.

Anyway thanks for the heads up everyone...

[Iowa #1603]

I agree that is probably what they meant, but being that a "straight razor" isn't specifically expressed in the code while the code went into detail about distinguishing all variants and/or named the other weapons specifically, ..

I would wager...............................and wager more I would win, that if you read the history of the law.........................you would find that the statute was written when a razor MEANT a straight razor. Like that was all there was when the law was written.

I don't think the code is written very well because for the average citizen (especially a knife person/collector) who doesn't follow case law but viewed the code, the knife I wanted to carry really isn't a dirk, dagger, or bowie knife which are all larger fighting knifes that have a choil, are set in a hilt, and/or (by very definition which distinguishes them from other type of knives) have 2 sharp cutting edges on either side rather than the typical 1

Here are the Websters definitions for dirk and dagger-----either would LEGALLY fit the the photo you provided


dirk
noun \ˈdərk\
: a long straight-bladed dagger


dag·ger
[dag-er] Show IPA
noun
1.a short, swordlike weapon with a pointed blade and a handle, used for stabbing.

Don't split hairs--------------------and YOU might think it is "poorly written" but your thoughts don't count in court.
a short, swordlike weapon with a pointed blade and a handle, used for stabbing. [/B]

because for the average citizen (especially a knife person/collector) who doesn't follow case law but viewed the code, the knife I wanted to carry really isn't a dirk, dagger, or bowie knife which are all larger fighting knifes that have a choil

It is incumbent on ANYONE that carries ANY type of weapon to make sure the venue they are carrying that weapon is correct and that the weapon is legal. If you don't research and get caught when you are wrong----------------you are just as wrong as if you had intent to do so.

In California it would be defined as a dirk or dagger, which is interpreted in case law as any fixed bladed stabbing instrument. Since "dirk" is included in VA list of prohibited concealed items, I would say it's a violation.

Also read this again about CASE LAW...............if the weapon is defined in case law----it really doesn't matter what you think the definition is.

[don757]

I checked the case law as you all suggested, and should be legal for me to conceal carry my knife.

http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1080445.pdf

Upon comparing its physical
characteristics to those of either a dagger or a sword, both of
which are included in the definition of a dirk, it is obvious, however,
that Thompson's butterfly knife is not substantially similar to
a dirk. While the butterfly knife's blade is four inches long
and has a sharp point at the end of the blade, it contains only
one sharp edge instead of two and has no protective guard
between the blade and the handle. Without two sharp edges and a
protective guard, we conclude that the butterfly knife is not
designed for stabbing purposes like a dagger, but rather for
cutting purposes.

On the other hand, a sword's blade may be used for cutting
or thrusting. However, one important feature of a sword is for
the blade to be set in a hilt. Thompson's butterfly knife does
not have a hilt. Instead, it is more akin to a pocketknife, in
that the blade is movable from its handle, and it folds into
itself.

My knife isn't a butterfly knife and the blade isn't "removable from it's handle", but it also does not have the characteristics of a stabbing (sword like) knife.

[Iowa #1603]

You know don.......................................you have a history of coming on this forum , asking questions, and then arguing with the answers given.

Why do you bother us ?

http://forums.officer.com/t182659/

http://forums.officer.com/t189262/

http://forums.officer.com/t188481/

Go ahead and carry it--------------------don't cry when you go to jail sometime

[don757]

You know don.......................................you have a history of coming on this forum , asking questions, and then arguing with the answers given.

Why do you bother us ?

http://forums.officer.com/t182659/

http://forums.officer.com/t189262/

http://forums.officer.com/t188481/

Go ahead and carry it--------------------don't cry when you go to jail sometime

Maybe I'm missing something here?

Just as in the other threads, no one is arguing. I do not come here and "argue." What argument do you see in any of my above post? You do this all the time.



Per your advice, I first googled "Virginia case law knives" which didn't yield any relevant info. I then googled "court knife Virginia" which pointed me to a 2009 Virginia Supreme court case (case law) regarding knives (Wayne Thompson v. Commonwealth) which states that in Virginia only, for a knife to be consider dart or sword like, it must have a certain characteristics that my knife obviously does not have.

I then googled "Wayne Thompson v. Commonwealth knife laws" which lead to links of other discussion and info that also confirm the above.

So you all were right in saying that it may have been considered a dart here in VA just like it is in other states. You all gave good information about checking the case law. I followed your and mdrdep advice about ultimately having to check the case law as in I actually read all 16 pages of the court's opinion. I checked it and it says my knife is okay. I came back and posted what I found being that it may help someone else in the future... What am I arguing about? Why are you accusing me of arguing again?

[Chopshopcop]

Easiest way to find out? Walk into any police station in VA carrying your fixed blade knife concealed. Tell them that you are carrying a concealed fixed blade knife, and that you wish to find out if it's legal. You'll have your answer pretty much within seconds.