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  • #16
    Well I guess I will just jump in to recap and draw a definitive line as far as my own personal position, after what you said Iowa. I personally voted down this organization because the university would prohibit it even if it did pass the SGA. My reasoning for this is that since there is no standard of training, and it being extremely easy to get a concealed carry permit (like earlier stated I know of one case of a student under the age of twenty one that was a non resident able to get a resident's permit.) Also I take into consideration that we have quite a large police department comparative to the size of the university, both in number of students and size of campus.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JCrew93 View Post
      Thanks for the responses! As far as state law goes it is up to each university to set their own policy, to my understanding. So even if we hadn't voted down the organization, the university would have denied it. The organization wouldn't have directly changed policy, they were just trying to found in opposition to current policy. Also the correlation between shootings and weapon free zones is duly noted. I guess I could rephrase my question to this, as a LEO, would your feelings be any different or your actions be any different if you had to respond to an active shooter situation in a place where you knew firearms were prohibited vs. an area where they were allowed?






      Tactically, there would be NO difference.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by JCrew93 View Post
        Well I guess I will just jump in to recap and draw a definitive line as far as my own personal position, after what you said Iowa. I personally voted down this organization because the university would prohibit it even if it did pass the SGA. My reasoning for this is that since there is no standard of training, and it being extremely easy to get a concealed carry permit (like earlier stated I know of one case of a student under the age of twenty one that was a non resident able to get a resident's permit.) Also I take into consideration that we have quite a large police department comparative to the size of the university, both in number of students and size of campus.






        JC, preaching the obvious here, but we both know the SGA is largely a consultative/advisory role. Which is not to say it's not important. The Board of Regents/Administration will make the final call concerning firearms on campus.

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        • #19
          This was posted by an officer on another forum. Perhaps it will make sense with respect to what's being discussed about gun free zones. The officer in question was talking to librarians about library safety, but the same principles apply to a college campus.

          Last month, the chief volunteered me to give a speech to a meeting of library administrators from all over the state. Their meeting was today.

          One of the things I was asked to cover was active shooter situations. During my speech, I said that the best response to an active shooter was to have armed citizens or armed security guards in the library that can neutralize the shooter as soon as the incident begins. I also said that if their libraries were designated “Gun Free Zones” they might wish to reconsider that policy.

          Several people in the audience took exception to that, claiming that “gun free zones” were much safer than places where people could be carrying a concealed handgun. I asked how many people had theft deterrent systems in their libraries, such as RFID’s in the books and a walk-through scanner at the exit. Every single hand went up. Then I asked how many of them would be willing to get rid of their theft deterrent system in favor of a sign that read “Theft Free Zone.”

          After the speech, there were at least a dozen people who came up to me to say that I had actually changed their minds about “Gun Free Zones” and that they had never thought of the issue in the terms I described. One guy even said that, now that he saw the issue from another point of view, he kind of felt foolish for his previous opinions.
          Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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          • #20
            The best place for a predator to hunt is where the prey cannot fight back.
            In God We Trust
            Everyone else we run local and NCIC

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            • #21
              Exactly Lady Blue,

              Why fight a threat, when you can fight the helpless?!?!? As others have correctly pointed out, there is strong points to both sides. I think the biggest issue is; confusion for responding officers. If the reported dispatch call states there is one active shooter on property, then all of sudden you see two or more with firearms; that could be a problem. Plus, a student that is not trained to handle a firearm in a stressful situation, could cause more harm than good. Properly trained is key so therefore, either have more trained officers on campus or very well trained armed security officers.
              My badge bears no fault or guilt to take another persons life, if I am close to losing my own

              sigpic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                Tactically, there would be NO difference.
                Originally posted by AL Enforcer View Post
                Exactly Lady Blue,

                Why fight a threat, when you can fight the helpless?!?!? As others have correctly pointed out, there is strong points to both sides. I think the biggest issue is; confusion for responding officers. If the reported dispatch call states there is one active shooter on property, then all of sudden you see two or more with firearms; that could be a problem.
                Yep. If I respond to an active shooter, and I see a person with a gun, I order them to drop it, then I secure them, then I esablish who they are. If I am off duty and am thrown in the middle of a shooter situation. IF I deem it feasible to act based on a number of situations, My badge is displayed at the first opportunity to avert confusion, and I am on the pone with 911 to identify myself as LEO.
                I yell "PIKACHU" before I tase someone.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Lady Blue View Post
                  The best place for a predator to hunt is where the prey cannot fight back.
                  AAANNNNNNDDDDD Lady Blue for the win.
                  I yell "PIKACHU" before I tase someone.

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                  • #24
                    I'm curious to know why you have such a negative preconceived notion of "the type of people who would carry concealed." Who is that "type" of person? I'd suggest taking another look at it without letting your biases cloud your interpretation of the issue at hand.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by AppState View Post
                      I'm curious to know why you have such a negative preconceived notion of "the type of people who would carry concealed." Who is that "type" of person? I'd suggest taking another look at it without letting your biases cloud your interpretation of the issue at hand.

                      The problem is the idiots that get themselves on TV or in the media represent a small portion of the CCW community, but if that's all people see then that's what they think all CCW persons are. You all know what I mean, it's the people who:

                      - have a $900 in a $2 Walmart holster and they lose it in the bathroom
                      - have two teeth and expound about the "gubmint" and their "raaaats"
                      - have false bravado, yadda yadda yadda

                      I'll be honest, many moons ago I was a huge "shall issue" guy. I was all about everyone who wants one getting a permit. I grew up in a gun shop and once I started actually getting some training I realized less than 1% of the people I was around I trusted with a sharp crayon, let alone a gun.

                      We as a firearms community need to police our own long before we start trying to get others to see our way, as we are our own worst enemies.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by AppState View Post
                        I'm curious to know why you have such a negative preconceived notion of "the type of people who would carry concealed." Who is that "type" of person? I'd suggest taking another look at it without letting your biases cloud your interpretation of the issue at hand.
                        I don't have a negative bias against all people that wish to get a CCW and utilize it. I'm worried about the folks that I see advocating it most. I'm worried about the guy that has a record of two negligent discharges while in his home off campus. I'm worried about the guy that was stopped for DUI, with five firearms and 4,000 rounds of ammo in his vehicle. I'm worried about the guy that started waving a pistol around at a party because he said, "I'm drunk enough to shoot someone if I had a gun" and then proceeded to draw his pistol that was concealed. Due to the ease of getting a permit, I see where I live as less of a Shall Issue and more off a "Will Issue" area.

                        BUT, after hearing yall's opinion I can see how it is asinine to completely shut out the idea, and I can see the logic of a gun free zone not being some magic barrier to stop firearms, but rather is a more appealing target.

                        Phillip, I agree wholeheartedly, and I'm sorry if it came across that I'm trying to up my self importance. SGA by and large is a self-serving organization, and as it has been noted above we have little to no say. All we do is approve or disapprove for consideration by the University's actual policy makers, and this wasn't likely to be considered for long.

                        Once again thank y'all for responding with your opinions. It is greatly appreciated that y'all were willing to entertain my question.

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                        • #27
                          My problem with this post is that the Student Government and the board of Regents are denying the 1st amendment rights of a group that wants to advocate for the 2nd amendment because their position is unpopular or politically incorrect. While I am of mixed feeling about the idea of college students keeping firearms in dorm rooms and fraternity houses I do believe that the group should be allowed to express their views and advocate for their political position. The fact that the Regents and by extension the SGA don't want to deal with the issue is no reason to deny a student group it's right to express its political views. This is just another example of liberal intolerance.
                          When Society makes war on its police, it better be prepared to make friends of its criminals.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PABear31 View Post
                            My problem with this post is that the Student Government and the board of Regents are denying the 1st amendment rights of a group that wants to advocate for the 2nd amendment because their position is unpopular or politically incorrect. While I am of mixed feeling about the idea of college students keeping firearms in dorm rooms and fraternity houses I do believe that the group should be allowed to express their views and advocate for their political position. The fact that the Regents and by extension the SGA don't want to deal with the issue is no reason to deny a student group it's right to express its political views. This is just another example of liberal intolerance.
                            Lack of SGA recognition has nothing to do with 1st Ammendment rights. Non recognized groups can have members, hold meetings, publish articles in the student newspaper, engage in debate, etc. What they cannot do is use the university's logo, fund raise on campus or recieve SGA funds. It is not uncommon for groups to be voted down if the board does not feel the organization furthers the mission of the university.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by PABear31 View Post
                              While I am of mixed feeling about the idea of college students keeping firearms in dorm rooms and fraternity houses I do believe that the group should be allowed to express their views and advocate for their political position.
                              For the record, I think most students are out of the dorms and into apartments by 21. I'm not sure any states allow CCW to under 21. Frat houses do concern me though.
                              I yell "PIKACHU" before I tase someone.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Rudy8116 View Post
                                For the record, I think most students are out of the dorms and into apartments by 21. I'm not sure any states allow CCW to under 21. Frat houses do concern me though.
                                The state I am in is Alabama, and currently allows concealed carry permits to be issued at age 18. All it takes is someone to go to the courthouse and give the fraternities house address and pay the fee. I have yet to hear of someone being denied a permit, and that includes non-residents that have temporary residence at my fraternity house. However the under 21 limit doesn't carry over to other states. I.E. if I have a permit and am under 21, and cross state lines and I am questioned, I am illegally possessing a firearm without permit. At least that is my understanding. And it has late bearing on this discussion but I do live in a fraternity house, and all three instances I gave in my last post are fraternity brothers of mine.

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