University Concealed Carry

[JCrew93]

Hello All,

I am curious to hear your opinions on concealed carry by students on a university campus. I am a member of my university student government association and recently we had a group form that was trying to advocate second amendment broadly, but the organization's main goal was to advocate the right and ability for people to carry concealed weapons on the university campus. Currently the university policy is that no one is allowed to carry on campus, open or otherwise unless they are sworn federal, state, local, etc. law enforcement. I, along with many of my fellow SGA members voted the organization down but they are currently in the process of a petition. Many students believe the idea of an armed citizen can be the best thing if a spontaneous active shooter event were to happen on campus. Personally, while I agree with the sentiment, knowing the folks that are most likely to carry concealed, the idea worries me. My other thought was that if the university police were called to respond to a subject with a gun call, anybody with a gun, whether the primary shooter or another student trying to respond would have to be subdued and placed in custody until the situation is resolved. However I could be completely wrong, as I am not a trained LEO. So if anyone has an opinion to weigh in I would love to hear it.

Thanks,
JCrew

tl;dr: My university SGA recently had a vote and voted down an organization that would attempt to allow students to conceal carry weapons on campus. I would love opinions from the perspective of a law enforcement officer.

[Iowa #1603]

All I can say is that most mass shootings SEEM to occur at places where carrying weapons is prohibited.

Wonder if there is any correlation?

[just joe]

Does your state have a law that prohibits CC on campus? A number of states do and, if so, it really doesn't matter what anyone wants because it is still a violation of the law.

[PhilipCal]

At the end of the day, the resolution of your question will rest with the law(s) in your state, and university policy as established by a Board of Regents or similar agency.

Those are the potential obstacles you face, and nothing we can say is going to change that.

[Rudy8116]

I know Texas has been debating this. If it were legal, then I believe it is legal in the whole state, not up to the university. Of course it were all to depend on the wording. Why would it worry you? It's concealed, you don't know if someone has one or not. Do you worry if someone is carrying concealed when you go to the mall, or church, or McDonald's? If you were a criminal, you SHOULD worry. There have been studies and interviews with career criminals who said they would think twice, if not avoid completely, a victim they thought to be armed.


Let me ask you this, what would a female student do if she were attacked by an individual intent on raping her, at a large campus, say texas university, or Arizona State? Should she scream, ask him to wait while she runs to the nearest 911 call box a block away, or should she pee on him?

Would you not be in favor of her using her 2nd Amendment right to defend herself? Or what would you prefer to do if you came upon her while she was being raped? If you tried peeing on the suspect, you might allow her to escape, but you better be armed with something, cause he's coming after you.


PS - I do appreciate you asking your question in a mature manner, unlike some of the others who come on here.

[JCrew93]

Thanks for the responses! As far as state law goes it is up to each university to set their own policy, to my understanding. So even if we hadn't voted down the organization, the university would have denied it. The organization wouldn't have directly changed policy, they were just trying to found in opposition to current policy. Also the correlation between shootings and weapon free zones is duly noted. I guess I could rephrase my question to this, as a LEO, would your feelings be any different or your actions be any different if you had to respond to an active shooter situation in a place where you knew firearms were prohibited vs. an area where they were allowed?

[Iowa #1603]

I guess I could rephrase my question to this, as a LEO, would your feelings be any different or your actions be any different if you had to respond to an active shooter situation in a place where you knew firearms were prohibited vs. an area where they were allowed?

Wouldn't bother me a bit..........................I just hope the "good guy with a gun" knows enough to lay his/her gun down and follow orders when the PoPo arrive.

[Rudy8116]

I personally am in favor of people who can legally carry, doing so legally and responsibly. I'm pretty sure they drill into your head during CCW classes that if you are stopped, you notify the LEO that you are carrying, if you call 911 you notify the dispatcher you are carrying, if you draw your weapon during any event prior to police arrival, you follow the officer's directions precisly.

[JCrew93]

I can totally agree with your line of reasoning Rudy. My biggest worry, like I said, was the kind of people that would advocate this are the kinds of people that would, in an active shooter scenario actually go hunting for the shooter, not solely responding to an immediate threat to their own personal safety. They are also the types of people that I could see unfortunately being the victim of a LEO shooting because they wouldn't respond to LEO commands. And part of this worry comes with the fact that where my school is located it is laughably easy to get a CCW. The extent of the process for one fellow student I'm friends with consisted of dropping the application off with the sheriff on friday afternoon and picking up the CCW permit on monday, and he in not a resident of the state in which the permit was issued. No class, no safety requirements, as far as I know they just run the license of the applicant and that's the extent of it. I guess it is like anything else I have seen on this board, where the 1% ruin and prohibit the reasonable and lawful actions of the 99%.

But I will stop here, because I feel like anymore and I will just be beating the dead horse with this, and my intent isn't to argue the point. Thank y'all for your responses and putting up with my hypotheticals.

Also, on a side note, I completely agree with you about the 911 call boxes. I know that they look good as far giving parents a tour of campus and recruiting aspects, but I feel like the money to install/maintain them could be much better spent in hiring additional officers/security monitors to work with the campus police department.

[Iowa #1603]

I can totally agree with your line of reasoning Rudy. My biggest worry, like I said, was the kind of people that would advocate this are the kinds of people that would, in an active shooter scenario actually go hunting for the shooter, not solely responding to an immediate threat to their own personal safety. They are also the types of people that I could see unfortunately being the victim of a LEO shooting because they wouldn't respond to LEO commands. And part of this worry comes with the fact that where my school is located it is laughably easy to get a CCW. The extent of the process for one fellow student I'm friends with consisted of dropping the application off with the sheriff on friday afternoon and picking up the CCW permit on monday, and he in not a resident of the state in which the permit was issued. No class, no safety requirements, as far as I know they just run the license of the applicant and that's the extent of it. I guess it is like anything else I have seen on this board, where the 1% ruin and prohibit the reasonable and lawful actions of the 99%.

But I will stop here, because I feel like anymore and I will just be beating the dead horse with this, and my intent isn't to argue the point. Thank y'all for your responses and putting up with my hypotheticals.

Also, on a side note, I completely agree with you about the 911 call boxes. I know that they look good as far giving parents a tour of campus and recruiting aspects, but I feel like the money to install/maintain them could be much better spent in hiring additional officers/security monitors to work with the campus police department.

The bottom line is you need to either support it or not support it.

No matter WHICH way it ends up there will always be idiots that you can't teach, show or legislate out of the equation.

I personally ( as do the VAST MAJORITY of line cops) agree with CONCEALED CARRY by responsible adults.

[tanksoldier]

Cc on campus is legal inColorado. Wouldn't have it any other way.

[NvrDwn]

Liberty University allowed it.

[Rudy8116]

My biggest worry, like I said, was the kind of people that would advocate this are the kinds of people that would, in an active shooter scenario actually go hunting for the shooter, not solely responding to an immediate threat to their own personal safety.

In an active shooter situation, everyone is, by definition, in immediate danger of serious bodily enjury or death. It can be up to each individual CCW whether or not to engage the shooter, to lead himself or others to safety, to eliminate the threat, to search for the shooter, or to keep their weapon secured and not take any action.

[just joe]

I agree with you Rudy, but JCrew's concern is a valid one. Good Sam CCW college student is probably a college age white male, just like the suspect, and the arriving officers are likely to put a couple of rounds into his dome without trying to engage him in conversation. Good Sam is also likely to be identified by witnesses as a second shooter, adding to the confusion and diverting resources away from the real shooter. There are strong points for both sides of this debate.

[NvrDwn]

It definitely could be a problem. There are way to many unknown factors to say what would happen. Maybe good Joe has had little to no training and doesn't quickly decern a good guy from a bad guy and shoots the wrong guy (another ccw student) or maybe a undercover Officer that responded. That are some bad scenarios. Although maybe good Joe takes out the bg.

At the end of the day it's as I have said, there are to many variables to say.