Pepper Spray...immunity?

[Adster]

I've always heard about this and have never been really sure what it meant. Assuming a really good direct hit in the face and eyes, is there really such a thing as immunity? Do these people have an unusually high threshold for pain or does it just not feel that hot to them?

[CACBAND]

No clue, why it is, but I've seen people that it had little effect on. In my academy we had one dude that got sprayed, blinked his eyes a few times, and said something like, "well that hurts" and walked over to the water almost like nothing happened.

It's still going to have some effect on everyone, just the amount can very. However for someone who is not really drunk or high, the lack of effect it had on the guy in my academy is rare.

[11b101abn]

Thats why I carry as many force options as possible.

[SIG226]

I am of the rare bread that remains relatively unaffected by pepperspray. Myself and one other guy in my academy class of 110 had virtually no symptoms from being directly sprayed in the eyes/nose. Some people just aren't affected. Funny thing is that I have a response to chopped onions that others would have to pepperspray; go figure....

[ProtectandServe]

Like others have said, it just affects some differently. Our master instructors said there have been a few people who have been sprayed, wiped it off, and said, "you guys need some help decontaminating the others?"

That being said, if you do react to OC, spraying yourself over and over is not going to build an immunity to it.

[Nightshift va]

I've always heard about this and have never been really sure what it meant. Assuming a really good direct hit in the face and eyes, is there really such a thing as immunity? Do these people have an unusually high threshold for pain or does it just not feel that hot to them?

There are two effects of the very good "OC" spray...the brands that have the combination "Burn" and choking agent "CN or CS" are the best...many just have the "Burn" and they are not as effective even worse are the one's that don't start the main "burn" til you already have them in custody and in the back of the car, you need "Immediate effect". Also the "Fog" is way more effective than those streamline deploy methods. Absolutely there are individuals who are not as affected as others. Military personnel who are used to going to the "gas chamber" on a regular basis like those who are Infantry are not as affected or at least don't loose their minds when they are hit with it because they know how to control their fear and the pain. We have a local plant that makes those little metal can seasonings for food like red pepper and parikia etc and those plants make your eyes water just clearing them on a burglary call so i imagine those who work in the plant form some type of barrier to their effect as well. But the bottom line is no matter how ineffective this method is when you paint someone's face with OC I don't care who they are, they will be momentarily blinded and that is the edge you need to grab them in a control technique and place them into custody without you or them being injured. hope this helped with your question. Personally I like the tazer better.

[CruiserClass]

I had a drill sergeant that could stand in the OC chamber with no mask and his only reaction was to sneeze.

OC is my last option. I've never met anyone immune to electricity or physics.

[KapsFB]

That being said, if you do react to OC, spraying yourself over and over is not going to build an immunity to it.

Aw crap! NOW you tell me!!

[CACBAND]

There are two effects of the very good "OC" spray...the brands that have the combination "Burn" and choking agent "CN or CS" are the best...many just have the "Burn" and they are not as effective even worse are the one's that don't start the main "burn" til you already have them in custody and in the back of the car, you need "Immediate effect". Also the "Fog" is way more effective than those streamline deploy methods. Absolutely there are individuals who are not as affected as others. Military personnel who are used to going to the "gas chamber" on a regular basis like those who are Infantry are not as affected or at least don't loose their minds when they are hit with it because they know how to control their fear and the pain. We have a local plant that makes those little metal can seasonings for food like red pepper and parikia etc and those plants make your eyes water just clearing them on a burglary call so i imagine those who work in the plant form some type of barrier to their effect as well. But the bottom line is no matter how ineffective this method is when you paint someone's face with OC I don't care who they are, they will be momentarily blinded and that is the edge you need to grab them in a control technique and place them into custody without you or them being injured. hope this helped with your question. Personally I like the tazer better.

OC does have an effect on breathing, not just a "burn." The "cone" pattern has a greater respiratory effect than "stream" patterns (but both have a effect). Fog is rarely found in the size cans most police officers carry. Fog is more likely to found in MK-9 and larger sized.

Military personal are exposed to CS in the gas chamber, not OC, and that accounts for the difference in building a tolerance to it. They have a different mechanism of action on the body.

Also I've never seen pepper spray from any of the leading companies mixed with CN. CS, yes, but not CN.


CS is stronger than CN, and less toxic. Spraying someone with CN (if you can even find it in a personal sized can) is asking to get sued.

[vacbanned4]

Just my 2 cents...

I've been sprayed quite a few times. Each time it sucks just as much as the previous. However, I have noticed a reduced anxiety effect which in turn allows you to perform better when getting hit. You can sometimes force your eyes open and see shapes and be able to take necessary action. At first getting hit resulted in eyes being welded shut. Each time the grade, quality, and pattern of the OC has not changed.

On a contrast - one of the guys from my academy class lost vision in one of his eyes for over a week when taking a direct hit. Granted, he had an underlying condition he did not know about - there is still a danger here to some. It would be advisable to get yearly eye exams and find out if the OC could cause permanent damage.

[stormz5192]

I've been sprayed quite a few times and it always had little effect. However, the stuff we carry (Vexor) is nasty as hell and I cannot tolerate it.

[pulicords]

OC does have an effect on breathing, not just a "burn." The "cone" pattern has a greater respiratory effect than "stream" patterns (but both have a effect). Fog is rarely found in the size cans most police officers carry. Fog is more likely to found in MK-9 and larger sized.

FWIW: CN and CS are "irritants" while OC is classified as an "inflammatory" agent, because of it's effects on the soft tissues of the body. Inhalation of OC can impair a subject's ability to breath, but not enough to cause a loss of consciousness or death. That is one of the factors that make it an improvement (when used in hand held aerosols) vs CN or CS as a personal defense tool. The other advantage of using an inflammatory agent is it's effect on the attacker's vision. Even if the subject's ability to feel pain is diminished by drugs, alcohol, or mental state, OC causes swelling to the soft tissues of the eyelids and even the eyeballs, thereby making it difficult to see.

Everyone's perception of and tolerance to pain differs. While OC, CN and CS all are capable of causing discomfort, other effects (resulting from inflammation) make OC much more capable of distracting violent suspects than other chemical agents. Like any tool, how it's used and the tactics that are used with it has a great deal to do with it's effectiveness.

[CACBAND]

Vexor was at one point using synthetic OC, I can't even guess how bad that would hurt.

[pulicords]

CS is stronger than CN, and less toxic. Spraying someone with CN (if you can even find it in a personal sized can) is asking to get sued.

Neither CS nor CN is "toxic", but both substances can be used in sufficient quantities (if the room is small enough and poorly ventilated) that they could displace sufficient oxygen to cause asphyxiation. In hand held cannisters, CS and CN type aerosols can (like OC) cause injury to the cornea if they blow dust or other debris into it at close range. Other than that, long term effects are negligible.

One of the reasons OC wasn't approved by the CA Department of Justice (and the Department of Health Services) until the 1990's, was the fact that CN and OC had such good safety records. A single dose of CN (or OC or CS) used under acceptable LE circumstances, isn't going to result in any significant civil liability.

Defense Technologies Corp (Def-Tec) is one of the largest suppliers of chemical agents in the U.S. They still offer a number of CN based products, in addition to CS and OC. http://www.defense-technology.com/

[IdahoPO]

I've seen a lot of people sprayed with O.C. and I have yet to see anyone I would call immune to it. I know it exists but I haven't seen it yet. Some fair better than others but I still consider it a very valuable tool. I’ve seen it take the fight straight out of people and change their priorities in a hurry. I will admit though that most of my experience with deploying O.C. has been for stopping people from fighting each other, not to stop them from fighting me. It might not be my go to option in that situation.