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  • Input on probation and violation.

    I'm curious what the chances my sister will server her full sentence. The below is long. Short story probation violation.

    Back story: Without seeing the court documents I believe she was charged and convicted for several fraud charges related to credit, check, and wire. Her full sentence was in the 30 to 40 year range. Her lawyer got a deal where she served 90 days with suspended sentence, restitution, and 10 years probation.

    Current events: 3 days out of jail she got a speeding ticket she never paid and a warrant was eventually issued. She moved from one city to another and I believe spoke to her PO only once. Last week she "unauthorized use of a motor vehicle" and did a gas fill up and drive off which resulted in her being picked up by an officer and after running her he found the warrant. While being handcuffed the officer was notified that she was also to be held for parole violation. It now looks like she also has a speeding ticket making it through court in the second town she was in. I don't know what the violation actually was, but suspect that if it isn't for the warrant that it is either not meeting PO or failing drug test.

    My wife and I have taken on guardianship of her child and I know it sounds mean, but given her history and continuing actions, I honestly think she isn't going to change and it would be best if she served her time. Thank you for your input on this situation.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mantis Knight View Post
    I'm curious what the chances my sister will server her full sentence. The below is long. Short story probation violation.

    Back story: Without seeing the court documents I believe she was charged and convicted for several fraud charges related to credit, check, and wire. Her full sentence was in the 30 to 40 year range. Her lawyer got a deal where she served 90 days with suspended sentence, restitution, and 10 years probation.

    Current events: 3 days out of jail she got a speeding ticket she never paid and a warrant was eventually issued. She moved from one city to another and I believe spoke to her PO only once. Last week she "unauthorized use of a motor vehicle" and did a gas fill up and drive off which resulted in her being picked up by an officer and after running her he found the warrant. While being handcuffed the officer was notified that she was also to be held for parole violation. It now looks like she also has a speeding ticket making it through court in the second town she was in. I don't know what the violation actually was, but suspect that if it isn't for the warrant that it is either not meeting PO or failing drug test.

    My wife and I have taken on guardianship of her child and I know it sounds mean, but given her history and continuing actions, I honestly think she isn't going to change and it would be best if she served her time. Thank you for your input on this situation.

    There is way too much missing information that would be needed to make a educated guess... But ill throw a crap-shoot, shes going in to serve her sentence for multiple parole violations. How she got the "deal" she did amazes me but even more amazing is she threw it all, and now the rest of her life away.
    Ignore List : Bearcat357, Blackavar

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    • #3
      I will put it this way, I arrested a guy for a parole violation on man/del of a controlled substance once. I had to go to district court on it for some strange reason (though at the last minute he accepted a plea agreement). Anyway, while talking to his Parole Officer and the D.A. I found out that it was the third time they had revoked his parole from the same original charge. If I ventured a guess I'd say she does a couple of years and then gets paroled if it's state charges. If they're federal charges she'll do a lot more.

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      • #4
        It depends on a wide range of factors. Will she be sent back to prison to serve her full bit? Unlikely. Will she be sent back to serve some time on the charges on the plate? Good chance.

        Breaking the law while on probation, parole or conditional release is NOT an automatic return to prison to serve the full sentence. Just not how it works. In most cases and by no means is this universal, a violation is addressed on the basis of what was done and how it is directly related to the conditions of release.

        Will she turn her life around? Only time will tell.
        Originally posted by SSD
        It has long been the tradition on this forum and as well as professionally not to second guess or Monday morning QB the officer's who were actually on-scene and had to make the decision. That being said, I don't think that your discussion will go very far on this board.
        Originally posted by Iowa #1603
        And now you are arguing about not arguing..................

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        • #5
          If you are the legal guardian of her child, I would suggest you start saving for the child's college education. It will likely be some time before your sister is released into society again. She has too many negatives going for her. Her PO violated her; she stole a car; she stole gasoline; she FTA'd on a ticket. I think she is headed to jail for at least 5, and perhaps 10, years. She is obviously unfit for the general population and is in dire need of a regimented, closely supervised, daily routine.
          Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

          [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mantis Knight View Post
            Back story: Without seeing the court documents I believe she was charged and convicted for several fraud charges related to credit, check, and wire. Her full sentence was in the 30 to 40 year range. Her lawyer got a deal where she served 90 days with suspended sentence, restitution, and 10 years probation.
            The 30-40 yrs is way out of line for that type of crime in ANY court

            That might have been the maximum possible sentence if all charges were given the full sentence and boxcarred together.

            Most of the time sentences are given as concurrent------meaning (for example) a 10 yr, 10yr & 10 yr sentence will actually mean 10 yrs rather than 30 yrs if they were consecutive.

            The 90 day shock , suspended sentence and probation is probably a pretty normal sentence.

            Originally posted by Mantis Knight View Post
            Current events: 3 days out of jail she got a speeding ticket she never paid and a warrant was eventually issued. She moved from one city to another and I believe spoke to her PO only once. Last week she "unauthorized use of a motor vehicle" and did a gas fill up and drive off which resulted in her being picked up by an officer and after running her he found the warrant. While being handcuffed the officer was notified that she was also to be held for parole violation. It now looks like she also has a speeding ticket making it through court in the second town she was in. I don't know what the violation actually was, but suspect that if it isn't for the warrant that it is either not meeting PO or failing drug test.
            You really don’t know (or haven’t posted) enough information for us to know the facts
            A lot of it will be up to the probation officer.

            Most likely he/she filed the probation warrant for her not showing up for an appointment or for the address change without permission.

            More likely than not, she will not be violated on a situation like that. Probation Officers often push a warrant for minor violations just to show the probationer that they can and will have them jailed if the probationer screws up.--------------then they attempt to bargain with the probationer in order to get them to change their behavior.

            What many people don’t understand is that a parole officer/probation officer is much more of a social worker than a cop in many jurisdictions. The PO’s know that the probationer will mess up…………..it then becomes a game where the PO tries to change the behavior of the probationer and when the PO finally gives up………………….he/she sends the person back to the courts for violation.

            I would say that the courts take the probation violation recommendation of the PO’s about 50% of the time. JUDGES are more likely to keep the probationer out of jail than the PO’s are. It many times takes a lot longer to get the judge to give up than it does to get the PO to give up.

            Originally posted by Mantis Knight View Post
            My wife and I have taken on guardianship of her child and I know it sounds mean, but given her history and continuing actions, I honestly think she isn't going to change and it would be best if she served her time. Thank you for your input on this situation.
            My guess is that she will come around…………………when is another story.

            The thing is , if she “served her time” she would no longer be supervised by the system. Being on probation or parole gives the courts a chance to keep an eye on her and attempt to modify her behavior. Once she is done with her sentence, she is free.
            Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

            My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

            Comment


            • #7
              Sorry for the delay. I Went and got her paperwork from family to find out what her original charges were. She has 4 class C felonies. 2 for "Forgery in the second Degree", 1 for "Fraudulent Use of a Credit Card", and 1 for "Theft of Property".

              She won't tell anyone why her probation officer had her set to be held for violation, but the leading thoughts among the family are failure to meet probation officer, failure to pay the supervising fee, not starting to pay restitution, and/or failing drug test.

              Looking through the paperwork I see a line called "Victim Restitution" at $148,715.00. Does that mean all total she stole that much from people?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mantis Knight View Post
                Sorry for the delay. I Went and got her paperwork from family to find out what her original charges were. She has 4 class C felonies. 2 for "Forgery in the second Degree", 1 for "Fraudulent Use of a Credit Card", and 1 for "Theft of Property".

                She won't tell anyone why her probation officer had her set to be held for violation, but the leading thoughts among the family are failure to meet probation officer, failure to pay the supervising fee, not starting to pay restitution, and/or failing drug test.

                Looking through the paperwork I see a line called "Victim Restitution" at $148,715.00. Does that mean all total she stole that much from people?
                That's a hella lot $$$. If I see an amount in that range, usually it's multiple victims, white collar, and or an Attorney General case instead of through County Attorney. Sounds like your sister is in a hot mess. Oh, not sure how they do it where she's from....but where I'm from, the last few digits on the end of your sister's cause number indicates what #defendant she is. I'm thinking, there is more than one co-defendant(s).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mantis Knight View Post
                  Sorry for the delay. I Went and got her paperwork from family to find out what her original charges were. She has 4 class C felonies. 2 for "Forgery in the second Degree", 1 for "Fraudulent Use of a Credit Card", and 1 for "Theft of Property".
                  Yes multiple charges, multiple victims etc................once again those charges would NEVER end up being a 30-40 yr sentence.

                  If you add all of them up at 10 yrs for each count-----you would get close. Unless the person is a serial killer (or in this case a serial forger) the sentence would have the term CONCURRENT attached. Concurrent means that the sentences are to be served at the same time whereas Consecutive means one has to finish one sentence before the next one starts.


                  Originally posted by Mantis Knight View Post
                  She won't tell anyone why her probation officer had her set to be held for violation, but the leading thoughts among the family are failure to meet probation officer, failure to pay the supervising fee, not starting to pay restitution, and/or failing drug test.
                  Any of the above or all of the above.

                  Originally posted by Mantis Knight View Post
                  Looking through the paperwork I see a line called "Victim Restitution" at $148,715.00. Does that mean all total she stole that much from people?
                  Victim restitution also is ordered to pay back the state for the cost of the prosecution, cost of a court appointed attorney, as well as the amount defrauded.
                  Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                  My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                    Yes multiple charges, multiple victims etc................once again those charges would NEVER end up being a 30-40 yr sentence.
                    On the sheet listing "conditions of suspended sentence or probation", with probation circled. One of the conditions says "If the court revokes your suspended sentence or probation for your violating a condition, it may enter a judgment of conviction and impose on you a sentence of 40 years."

                    It looks like she has four different violations of probation against her.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mantis Knight View Post
                      On the sheet listing "conditions of suspended sentence or probation", with probation circled. One of the conditions says "If the court revokes your suspended sentence or probation for your violating a condition, it may enter a judgment of conviction and impose on you a sentence of 40 years."

                      It looks like she has four different violations of probation against her.
                      That means it is a POTENTIAL sentence of 40 yrs.
                      40 yrs hard time just plain isn't going to happen for a non violent crime.
                      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I see these sentences all the time as a Probation/Parole Officer, especially when it involves large amounts of money. In my experience, these long sentences are formed so that the defendant has enough time to pay the restitution. Most Judges realize that it's going to take time to pay back that amount of money, that's even if the offender is able to get a job. Most aren't interested in working especially when they're used to stealing. It's a lousy system for victims.

                        In regards to the violation, I agree that there is too much information missing to give a solid opinion. But I will say that it's usually a very bad situation when an offender commits a new crime while on probation/parole. In the Judge's eyes it's criminal recidivisim, and basically it means that you didn't learn you lesson the first time or "Probation and parole was an ineffective vehicle to accomplish rehabilitation and Probation/Parole is revoked..."

                        I can see this going two ways. 1. The judge nails her and gives her a significant amount of time to serve for the criminal recidivisim. 2. The judge gives her jail time but a minimal amount and then releases her with specific and more strict conditions so that she can start working and pay back the money she's stolen. Keep in mind, if she pleads guilty to the new theft charges, she'll be sentenced for this crime too, making a potentially longer sentence if it's not concurrent to the sentence she's currently serving.

                        She will NOT get 40 years in jail, or even close to it. I think the Judge's intent for the long probation sentence was for her to make restitution and it would be counterproductive to give her a long jail sentence.
                        Last edited by POSr; 06-07-2011, 11:05 AM.
                        "Character is someone you are when no one is watching."

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                        • #13
                          Small update. She has 3 violations. Failed drug test (probably marijuana, but maybe pills), missed at least one meeting, and failed to notify supervising officer of a new address after one of her moves.

                          I talked with the officer in charge of her probation and he didn't think the judge would reinstate her probation. She had a court date, arraignment?, and has another in about a month where I think they will finally do something permanent with her.

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