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  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by TheLieguy View Post
    It is just a slightly different version of one I posted at polygraph place BB a few years ago. It, along with another examiners response on the same issue are up there permanently. I'm
    We appreciate your post. Several of us are fairly familiar with the hiring process & the BI part but have only tangential knowledge of the Poly...... As you can see if you have read any of the posts---we know what is done but are not examiners. Your post gives a bit of knowledge to the forum...

    Thanks


    I trolled around the site you posted and am fairly interested in reading further on there

    Leave a comment:


  • TheLieguy
    replied
    Removed duplicate
    Last edited by TheLieguy; 03-15-2011, 11:51 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheLieguy
    replied
    It is just a slightly different version of one I posted at polygraph place BB a few years ago. It, along with another examiners response on the same issue are up there permanently.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilipCal
    replied
    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
    Should somehow get placed as a sticky.
    Totally agree.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
    Great post. Should be required reading for all applicants.
    Should somehow get placed as a sticky.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilipCal
    replied
    Originally posted by TheLieguy View Post
    *I see a lot of posts in these forums about polygraph, mostly pre-employment type tests

    I am a polygraph examiner. I don't feel the need to debate the science here. * The scientific research is available and you're better off reading it yourself that going with someone's opinion or anecdotes which may be uninformed or misinformed rather that informed. You will find that polygraph isn't perfect, but it does a far better job than any of the current alternatives. It is legal and in many agencies it is a fact of life for applicants. Most agencies would rather reject a dozen good applicants than hire one bad one.*

    Some posts deal with disqualification issues for Law Enforcement pre-employment examinations. I hear a lot of "I only did it once and I didn't inhale or it wasn't my fault" type stuff. If and when an examiner gives you an opinion on whether or not the issue might disqualify you, he or she may be inadvertently influencing your decision on whether or not you will try to lie to the examiner. That's why the most common response from examiners is "just tell the truth".

    Generally

    If you are now, or ever have been, a Murderer, Rapist, Robber, Child Molester, or Drug Dealer; FORGET IT!!! What in the world do you think you are doing applying for a law enforcement job in the first place? Some of the choices you have made in the past may, and absolutely should, disqualify you from carrying a badge. Sorry. That's the way it is. Find another career. I don't care if you have the greatest forensic mind since Sherlock Holmes; we don't want you any more than Israel wants to help fund the Nazi Party. It's a BIG conflict of interest.

    For the rest of the stuff you may have done just be honest. When you sit down in the polygraph examiner's chair, you should understand that there is absolutely nothing you can do to change your past. The only thing that really matters at that point is whether or not you intend to be honest. Your best bet is to tell the truth no matter how much it embarrasses you. If you get caught lying, you severely damage your chances to get hired. Lying on the exam is generally a much more serious problem than whatever skeleton you have rattling around in your closet.

    If you are just coming in to this most honorable profession, you should understand that Police work isn't the "we're gonna cover for each other no matter what" bunch of good old boys you see depicted on television and in the movies. By a vast majority you'll find more honesty and integrity in a station house or behind the wheel of a cop car than almost any place else in the world. The reason that the media goes into a feeding frenzy when a cop breaks the public trust is because it is so rare.

    I asked one of my old Chief's of Police one time what he thought was the most important trait an officer could have. He said "Courage to tell the truth, no matter how bad it gets courage to tell the truth". He went on to explain that in police work things can and often do "go bad in a hurry". As a Chief of Police he has to have confidence that when IT hits the fan he is going to hear the absolute truth from all involved. Without the truth he can't protect the officer, the department, or his job. If a prospective employee gets caught in a lie about something that happened years ago, why should the boss believe that he can now trust this person to tell him the truth if something serious happens?

    As an examiner, it isn't my job to decide who gets hired and who doesn't. My job is to conduct an examination and report the results. Time after time, I have seen pre-test admissions to somewhat serious issues treated more favorably than attempted lies to inconsequential matters.

    If you have some specific questions, I suggest you go to*http://www.polygraphplace.com/cgi-bi...i/Ultimate.cgi this board is monitored by competent professionals who will try to help you.*

    I will warn you about the advice you see at various websites concerning how to beat a polygraph exam, whether it's for free or for fee, it isn't exactly as it is represented. The National Academy of Sciences concluded that the information on these sites may actually increase your likelihood of failure.*

    The best advice I can offer you is *tell the truth. Tell the truth and no matter what you used to do or whomever you used to be, what you won't be is a liar.
    Great post. Should be required reading for all applicants.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheLieguy
    replied
    *I see a lot of posts in these forums about polygraph, mostly pre-employment type tests

    I am a polygraph examiner. I don't feel the need to debate the science here. * The scientific research is available and you're better off reading it yourself that going with someone's opinion or anecdotes which may be uninformed or misinformed rather that informed. You will find that polygraph isn't perfect, but it does a far better job than any of the current alternatives. It is legal and in many agencies it is a fact of life for applicants. Most agencies would rather reject a dozen good applicants than hire one bad one.*

    Some posts deal with disqualification issues for Law Enforcement pre-employment examinations. I hear a lot of "I only did it once and I didn't inhale or it wasn't my fault" type stuff. If and when an examiner gives you an opinion on whether or not the issue might disqualify you, he or she may be inadvertently influencing your decision on whether or not you will try to lie to the examiner. That's why the most common response from examiners is "just tell the truth".

    Generally

    If you are now, or ever have been, a Murderer, Rapist, Robber, Child Molester, or Drug Dealer; FORGET IT!!! What in the world do you think you are doing applying for a law enforcement job in the first place? Some of the choices you have made in the past may, and absolutely should, disqualify you from carrying a badge. Sorry. That's the way it is. Find another career. I don't care if you have the greatest forensic mind since Sherlock Holmes; we don't want you any more than Israel wants to help fund the Nazi Party. It's a BIG conflict of interest.

    For the rest of the stuff you may have done just be honest. When you sit down in the polygraph examiner's chair, you should understand that there is absolutely nothing you can do to change your past. The only thing that really matters at that point is whether or not you intend to be honest. Your best bet is to tell the truth no matter how much it embarrasses you. If you get caught lying, you severely damage your chances to get hired. Lying on the exam is generally a much more serious problem than whatever skeleton you have rattling around in your closet.

    If you are just coming in to this most honorable profession, you should understand that Police work isn't the "we're gonna cover for each other no matter what" bunch of good old boys you see depicted on television and in the movies. By a vast majority you'll find more honesty and integrity in a station house or behind the wheel of a cop car than almost any place else in the world. The reason that the media goes into a feeding frenzy when a cop breaks the public trust is because it is so rare.

    I asked one of my old Chief's of Police one time what he thought was the most important trait an officer could have. He said "Courage to tell the truth, no matter how bad it gets courage to tell the truth". He went on to explain that in police work things can and often do "go bad in a hurry". As a Chief of Police he has to have confidence that when IT hits the fan he is going to hear the absolute truth from all involved. Without the truth he can't protect the officer, the department, or his job. If a prospective employee gets caught in a lie about something that happened years ago, why should the boss believe that he can now trust this person to tell him the truth if something serious happens?

    As an examiner, it isn't my job to decide who gets hired and who doesn't. My job is to conduct an examination and report the results. Time after time, I have seen pre-test admissions to somewhat serious issues treated more favorably than attempted lies to inconsequential matters.

    If you have some specific questions, I suggest you go to*http://www.polygraphplace.com/cgi-bi...i/Ultimate.cgi this board is monitored by competent professionals who will try to help you.*

    I will warn you about the advice you see at various websites concerning how to beat a polygraph exam, whether it's for free or for fee, it isn't exactly as it is represented. The National Academy of Sciences concluded that the information on these sites may actually increase your likelihood of failure.*

    The best advice I can offer you is *tell the truth. Tell the truth and no matter what you used to do or whomever you used to be, what you won't be is a liar.

    Leave a comment:


  • just joe
    replied
    Originally posted by Brinksta View Post
    In no way do I plan on being deceptive on the polygraph. I do not lie and I am not that kind of person. What I am worried about his answering a question truthfully and the polygraph showing I am being deceptive. That one question could ruin my dream of law enforcement. Putting my dream on the accuracy of a polygraph worries me, honestly.
    That's always a possibility. You wouldn't be the first.

    Leave a comment:


  • mp1161
    replied
    Originally posted by goodfella View Post
    I've seen them work to extent and I've also seen them not work.
    ^ this

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    It is an investigative tool.


    IT matters not what your feelings are about the technique. Polygraphs /voice stress are a standard investigative tool in Law Enforcement and have proven their worth in that regard no matter if the "science " is debatable or not.

    As an approved investigative TOOL, they are a part of the application process in many departments. They are a fact of life.

    Leave a comment:


  • ummone
    replied
    No we don't use polygraphs to scare people. We leave it up to the water boarding technician that does the oral interview.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilipCal
    replied
    Originally posted by benseventeen View Post
    In my experience, the polygraph was definitely set up to try to "scare" or intimidate the applicant into contradicting themselves. For example, my background investigator, a week before the test, reviewed my application and said that it was my last chance to alter or change any answer on the application. If there was any grey area, we went over it and I would explain what happened and why I answered the way I did. But it was clear that my answers were my answers and could not be changed later.

    Then, at the polygraph, the examiner starts out by saying "we're not looking for perfect people, we're looking for people who are mature enough to admit when they've made a mistake" and then said that it's okay if I've done this or that and that I won't be DQd if I just admit to it, and "gave me the opportunity to correct my application". Of course I had been truthful about everything on my application, so there was no need for me to change any answers or admit to anything more than I already had on the application, but I know that the examiner was lying, and that if an applicant did disclose more than they already had on the application he or she would be disqualified because the agency does not want people who are only honest when they are confronted with a polygraph. It's just an attempt to catch you in a lie. So just don't lie.
    Your profile identifies you as a student in the process with a Sheriff's Dept. You're not a Cop.....yet. Therefore, you're not supposed to be posting in this section. A large part of being a successful applicant is reading and observing the rules.

    Leave a comment:


  • JDCOP
    replied
    Polygraph and CVSA = Black magic

    Leave a comment:


  • Dingo990
    replied
    Originally posted by Brinksta View Post
    He also says the Academy Of Science has bashed the polygraph and so has NASA.
    Dunno about NASA, but the Academy of Science doesn't think they are accurate at all.

    I don't mind polygraphs as a tool in the process. It can point a BI in the right direction, but unfortunately there are departments that will base hiring decisions on them... and that is wrong in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • benseventeen
    replied
    In my experience, the polygraph was definitely set up to try to "scare" or intimidate the applicant into contradicting themselves. For example, my background investigator, a week before the test, reviewed my application and said that it was my last chance to alter or change any answer on the application. If there was any grey area, we went over it and I would explain what happened and why I answered the way I did. But it was clear that my answers were my answers and could not be changed later.

    Then, at the polygraph, the examiner starts out by saying "we're not looking for perfect people, we're looking for people who are mature enough to admit when they've made a mistake" and then said that it's okay if I've done this or that and that I won't be DQd if I just admit to it, and "gave me the opportunity to correct my application". Of course I had been truthful about everything on my application, so there was no need for me to change any answers or admit to anything more than I already had on the application, but I know that the examiner was lying, and that if an applicant did disclose more than they already had on the application he or she would be disqualified because the agency does not want people who are only honest when they are confronted with a polygraph. It's just an attempt to catch you in a lie. So just don't lie.

    Leave a comment:

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