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  • #16
    Originally posted by kam81 View Post
    ok maybe i should spell this out for you smart guy....you indicate that you would not hesitate to put rounds through a door (at something you cant see) to protect your family. i wonder HOW confident you can be that you're engaging a threat through a closed door, barring certain circumstances (shots fired, a guy on the other side of the door saying "hey mf'er, i'm coming in there to kill you, etc)....

    basic firearm safety, know what you're shooting at.
    I can be 100% confident that if they are outside my bedroom door and have broken into my house they are a target not a family member.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by kam81 View Post
      i wonder HOW confident you can be that you're engaging a threat through a closed door
      You're not getting it.... I don't care if the person behind the door is an ACTUAL THREAT- it's assumed. I don't have to prove that this person has evil intent. All I have to prove is that because of the circumstances, I needed to use deadly force.

      The fact that this person broke in and is now attempting to occupy the same space that my family and me are occupying makes it a threat to ME, even if it's a percieved threat. To use deadly force I have to have a reasonable fear that my life/others are in immideate danger. A person who just broke into my house (felony) is now trying to gain access to the room that me and my family are in. The only logical explanation for someone to continue to gain access to a room that we are in, is to kill us. My belongings are in other rooms; this would lead me to believe that someone who is ignoring the material things and continueing to go after people can only want one thing.

      Furthermore, in my experience people who break into homes are armed with some type of weapon. Because of this knowledge and immidiate fear for my life and family's life I can not allow an armed burgular to get through the door, which is the only barrier between life and death for my family. I have no choice but to shoot through the door at this armed suspect who is intent on getting into this room that we are taking refuge in. This armed suspect doesn't have to be good, just lucky. If he gets through that door and shoots a round off or throws a knife all it takes is luck for it to kill or seriously injure me or my family. I have no choice but to stop the threat before they enter the door and kill my family.

      BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG

      I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I rather be sitting in court saying, "damn" I wish that drunk college kid didn't break in my house... than at a funeral saying, "damn" I wish I would of done something different.
      Last edited by Michigan; 12-03-2010, 12:35 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by BigW View Post
        I can be 100% confident that if they are outside my bedroom door and have broken into my house they are a target not a family member.
        and there's nothing wrong with that in my book....as long as you can account for the whereabouts of other people in the residence!

        philip, i dont doubt the legality for one second....my only issue is with shooting indiscriminately through a door as opposed to perhaps taking a position of advantage and seeing what you're shooting at...

        Comment


        • #19
          In Texas we can shoot them in the yard... I just took a call the other night where a drunk non-english speaking man, wandered into a couples house and woke them up in their own bedroom. Questions: are you expecting company? Do you have family members or friends in the area?

          That being said , my friends and family know to call before they come over in the middle of the night and they definately know not to come in my house un announced. I can see how this would be complicated if you had multiple family members sleeping in different rooms. Is it your daughters boyfriend sneaking in??

          Who knows... I would try to identifiy the threat before I destroy it, but it may not be that simple.

          In short... In Texas 9.9times out of 10, you would be justified.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by kam81 View Post
            and there's nothing wrong with that in my book....as long as you can account for the whereabouts of other people in the residence!

            philip, i dont doubt the legality for one second....my only issue is with shooting indiscriminately through a door as opposed to perhaps taking a position of advantage and seeing what you're shooting at...
            Oh, so you're saying if I hear my wife on the other side of the door not to shoot through it? I see. Sorry.

            Hence the -DuH-

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            • #21
              Originally posted by kam81 View Post
              and there's nothing wrong with that in my book....as long as you can account for the whereabouts of other people in the residence!

              philip, i dont doubt the legality for one second....my only issue is with shooting indiscriminately through a door as opposed to perhaps taking a position of advantage and seeing what you're shooting at...
              I believe you're looking at a perfect world scenario, and one which seldom exists. I wouldn't describe shooting through the door under these circumstances as "indiscriminate".My colleagues have addressed the situation in a very cogent and realistic manner. Take another look at the original situation and the forum's replies to them. They represent real life answers to a real life situation.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Michigan View Post
                Oh, so you're saying if I hear my wife on the other side of the door not to shoot through it? I see. Sorry.

                Hence the -DuH-
                you arent understanding my point....which is if there are other people in the residence that are unaccounted for, you are taking a huge risk by shooting through the door (as opposed to what i said before, which was take a position of advantage and see what you're shooting at, as well as your backdrop)

                Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                I believe you're looking at a perfect world scenario, and one which seldom exists. I wouldn't describe shooting through the door under these circumstances as "indiscriminate".My colleagues have addressed the situation in a very cogent and realistic manner. Take another look at the original situation and the forum's replies to them. They represent real life answers to a real life situation.
                how in the world is what i described only feasible in a "perfect world scenario"??? its a crap sandwich either way....i'm only suggesting an alternative to shooting through a closed door...i guess training is different everywhere you go, and my views reflect that.
                Last edited by kam81; 12-03-2010, 12:54 PM.

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                • #23
                  OK Kam, I don't propose to argue with you all night on this point. You have your views, I have mine. I do feel that the forum has reasonably addressed the situation previously described, and I'll concede that there probably isn't a perfect solution. You mention a "position of advantage" in your replies, but aren't specific as to what that position would be. I can only address the overall situation which was advanced by the OP. Again, I commend you to the replies of our colleagues. I don't especially like shooting through a closed door either, and I can see your point to a degree. In my personal situation, it wouldn't be a problem as my Wife and I are the only two people in the house, and I can readily discern her presence in the bedroom with me. See what I mean?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                    OK Kam, I don't propose to argue with you all night on this point. You have your views, I have mine. I do feel that the forum has reasonably addressed the situation previously described, and I'll concede that there probably isn't a perfect solution. You mention a "position of advantage" in your replies, but aren't specific as to what that position would be. I can only address the overall situation which was advanced by the OP. Again, I commend you to the replies of our colleagues. I don't especially like shooting through a closed door either, and I can see your point to a degree. In my personal situation, it wouldn't be a problem as my Wife and I are the only two people in the house, and I can readily discern her presence in the bedroom with me. See what I mean?
                    what you arent getting is that we have no argument or disagreement, as my only issue with shooting through a door concerned other (legal) occupants in the residence! my situation is the same as yours...only people in my home are my wife and i...I would be putting rounds through the door without hesitation...it would be different if i had other family members staying in the house...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Spikerz View Post
                      In California - As told to me by family members who were detectives with local PD's and SO's.

                      The best bet. Stay in the bedroom, make sure you have 911 on speaker phone. Speak in a loud, clear manner that you are warning the person to stay away, and that they're coming through the door. 911 calls are recorded.
                      If they come through that door, and you are in fear of your life. You can use deadly force.

                      To avoid the horrific civil suits in California, make sure you don't shoot someone in the back. That can be seen as they're running away, and no longer a threat.

                      As others have said, and is the case, it is completely state dependent.
                      Forum: Ask a Cop

                      Looking for advice? Is there something you always wanted to ask a cop? Only LEOs should answer questions.

                      Yet another non LEO giving "advice" in Ask a Cop
                      "a band is blowing Dixie double four time You feel alright when you hear the music ring"


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by kam81 View Post
                        what you arent getting is that we have no argument or disagreement, as my only issue with shooting through a door concerned other (legal) occupants in the residence! my situation is the same as yours...only people in my home are my wife and i...I would be putting rounds through the door without hesitation...it would be different if i had other family members staying in the house...
                        Stating the obvious isn't normallly needed when speaking to other cops.

                        We were all addressing the situation that the OP had described. I don't think anyone here or anywhere else would start shooting thru a door when they know they have their 4 year old boys sleeping in the next room. I take my last sentence back, of course we know there are morons that would shoot regardless of knowing where the rest of their family is; however, telling a bunch of cops that is redundant.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by kam81 View Post
                          what you arent getting is that we have no argument or disagreement, as my only issue with shooting through a door concerned other (legal) occupants in the residence! my situation is the same as yours...only people in my home are my wife and i...I would be putting rounds through the door without hesitation...it would be different if i had other family members staying in the house...
                          Ya could fooled me,but I'll go along with you on this one. Just that not everyone's situation is as simple as ours.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            RoadKing Trooper is right. Someone with the authority should get Spikerz banned.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Michigan View Post
                              Stating the obvious isn't normallly needed when speaking to other cops.

                              We were all addressing the situation that the OP had described. I don't think anyone here or anywhere else would start shooting thru a door when they know they have their 4 year old boys sleeping in the next room. I take my last sentence back, of course we know there are morons that would shoot regardless of knowing where the rest of their family is; however, telling a bunch of cops that is redundant.
                              I offered a what if to the OPs scenario...which is what I thought discussing these things on a forum was intended for....I don't feel that I was stating the obvious, nor is this site strictly used by other cops. I'm not sure what your beef is, if any.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                In CA, esp. in any of the more liberal areas of the state, you could very well get hemmed up for shooting through the door at a completely unidentified threat as there are more than a few DAs that are not going to buy your statement of "I was in fear for my life ect" when you have absolutely no idea who or what is on the other side of that door.
                                The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                                "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                                "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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