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"Court to Cops: Stop Tasing People into Compliance"

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  • "Court to Cops: Stop Tasing People into Compliance"

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010...or/#more-21187

    In regards to this article, some commenters mentioned that OC spray might be a better alternative. Including any comments you may have about the article, I am really interested in what would happen if an officer had sprayed someone with pepper spray instead of having using the taser during one of the oft-cited taser misuse cases. Is it permissible to use pepper spray if you are not going to be detaining them? If so, then do you have to call EMS to stay with them until their eyes recover? How soon after being sprayed would they be able to drive? Or if they are definitely going to be detained, do they have to go to a hospital first, or just get their eyes washed out at the scene?

    Sorry, I know asked many different questions, I am just curious about the potential for use of less-than-lethal weapons and their impact.

    thanks

  • #2
    If your focus is truly OC spray (not pepper spray) and its effects, then why post the article?
    sigpic

    I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

    Comment


    • #3
      Is it permissible to use pepper spray if you are not going to be detaining them?
      If at the moment you taze or spray you aren't going to detain them, then you have no reason to be tazing or spraying.

      Whether tazing or spraying, you best have a good reason for doing it. Same criteria here. Either they have committed an assault, resisted arrest, or etc ... or they have somehow made you believe they are about to do so (raised a fist back as if to swing, etc) ... through their actions.

      If anyone is tazing or spraying just to get a signature or because of some unreasonable fear or "just because they can", it likely will be a very short career they end on the wrong end of a suit ... or maybe even behind bars.
      Last edited by t150vsuptpr; 01-04-2010, 01:30 PM.
      "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

      "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

      >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

      Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
        If your focus is truly OC spray (not pepper spray) and its effects, then why post the article?
        I posted the article because it highlights the challenges of using one form of less-than-lethal weapon. I shifted my question to OC spray because if officer's are indeed more restricted from using TASER's (in jurisdictions lying inside the 9th circuit in this case), then many will still have OC Spray at their disposal as another type of less-than-lethal weapon.

        Also, I was under the impression that the terms Pepper Spray and OC spray were interchangable as O.C. is the active "hot" ingredient in the Hot Pepper.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
          If your focus is truly OC spray (not pepper spray) and its effects, then why post the article?
          LOL reminds me when we started carrying PR 24's. Had one young troop who described using it for a strike on a subject, no arrest or report. As an Instructor I asked his rationale and failure to document. His reply?........It was a warning strike
          LOL
          "a band is blowing Dixie double four time You feel alright when you hear the music ring"


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          • #6
            Jesus... I've been tazered and I've been sprayed with Freeze+P. Given the choice, I'd rather ride the lightning. Five seconds, and it's over. Freeze+P is the "gift that keeps on giving," for the rest of the day. I hate that stuff!!
            Sure, that badge will get you midgets, but those midgets will get that badge!

            The more I learn about people, the more I prefer the company of my dogs.

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            • #7
              I hate using OC due to how long afterwards I have to spend with the subject crying. I feel bad for the 9th circus...i mean circuit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Let's Not Kneejerk Too Much

                You can find an analysis of the court's decision and how it actually impacts law enforcement at http://www.jones-mayer.com/clientale...2428122909.htm

                Read it first and then decide for yourself how much of a restriction it really imposes.

                All it says is that the Taser cannot be used unless the officer is able to justify that the use is based upon an objectively reasonable belief that a subject poses an immediate threat to the officer or others.

                The Court ruled that “a simple statement by an officer that he fears for his safety or the safety of others is not enough; there must be objective factors to justify such a concern.” Such weapons cannot be used simply because a person is disobeying orders, or acting erratically, unless it can be proven that such behavior created the immediate threat of danger to the officer or others.

                If an immediate threat of danger exists, spend an extra minute to articulate that in your report and you are in compliance. Not a big deal.
                Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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                • #9
                  If I had my choices of getting sprayed w/OC, whacked with a baton, or taking the Taze my answer is:

                  "Just taze me bro!!!!"
                  "Lay there and bleed awhile before you feel some real pain."

                  "Have a cup of coffee, a pall mall, and relax!"

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                  • #10
                    "Crass Cop to d-bag Criminals: STOP BREAKING THE LAW AND/OR NOT COMPLYING AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE THIS PROBLEM"

                    and as Sarge and BCSD advised....just TASER me...5 seconds and Im recovered.
                    "I don't go on "I'maworthlesscumdumpster.com" and post negative **** about cum dumpsters."
                    The Tick

                    "Are you referring to the secret headquarters of a fictional crime fighter or penal complex slang for a-$$hole, anus or rectum?"
                    sanitizer

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                    • #11
                      I would not rely on wired.com for a legal analysis.
                      Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sarge048 View Post
                        If I had my choices of getting sprayed w/OC, whacked with a baton, or taking the Taze my answer is:

                        "Just taze me bro!!!!"
                        I agree completely, I would rather take 5 full rides than get sprayed with the liquid hell OC again... the Taser just sounds so invasive to the public it is easy to HATE on it
                        Retired 02/01/13

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                        • #13
                          The problem isn't the use of the TAZER or OC spray; the problem is report writing and officers not articulating why they used either.
                          “We don't disagree, you are wrong. Until you have a clue what you are talking about we can't disagree.” - cgh6366

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                          • #14
                            "I'm not supposed to tase you, so I guess I'll use my baton for something besides scratching under my vest, picking my lunch box up out of the passenger floor board and pushing my passenger mirror back out after going through the car wash."

                            After a few thumpity-thump-thumps I bet the Taser's looking better and better.
                            I miss you, Dave.
                            http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sarge048 View Post
                              If I had my choices of getting sprayed w/OC, whacked with a baton, or taking the Taze my answer is:

                              "Just taze me bro!!!!"
                              Add me to this list.....

                              Of course, the last handful of times I have been forced to suck Freeze +P fumes, hit with a baton, and/or kicked,punched,folded,spindled ect have been at the hands of fellow deputies (or trainees)......which means either they have lousy aim, or they really don't like me......
                              The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                              "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                              "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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