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  • Active shooters

    The recent tragedy at Ft. Hood and some of the comments about it here on the board got me thinking. Imagine there's an active shooter and there's an off duty cop/plainclothes cop/ccw there who returns fire. When the police respond, they'd just encounter two people shooting at each other. How do they tell who is the aggressor and who is the defender? What would you do?

    Also, if one is the off duty/plainclothes/ccw, what would you do to let the police know that you're the good guy, assuming that it's still an active gunfight?

  • #2
    1. Thats one thing that you have to worry about carrying in plain clothes or ccw so if you do shoot choose wisely because you may end up being a victim yourself.
    2. Someone else may answer but thats a little OPSEC for me.

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    • #3
      Issues such as that cause stress for all involved. It is incumbant on the off duty officer to make himself known.

      Frankly, that is why I become a better witness than an active participant - unless absolutely necessary.

      Rather to receive accolades for doing what can be done off duty than to receive the accolades over the deep abyss prepared for my final resting place.
      Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

      [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

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      • #4
        inne-mini-minnie-moe.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Vigilis View Post
          The recent tragedy at Ft. Hood and some of the comments about it here on the board got me thinking. Imagine there's an active shooter and there's an off duty cop/plainclothes cop/ccw there who returns fire. When the police respond, they'd just encounter two people shooting at each other. How do they tell who is the aggressor and who is the defender? What would you do?

          Also, if one is the off duty/plainclothes/ccw, what would you do to let the police know that you're the good guy, assuming that it's still an active gunfight?
          The flaw in your question is the amount of time between engaging the threat, and response of law enforcement.

          Most shootouts (not on a battlefield) don't last over a minute, regardless of what you see on TV and in movies.

          Active shooter training dictates first responding officers address the threat. If you are already there when the shooter is in progress, you engage the threat as quickly and efficiently as possible, EXACTLY like the officer that responded to the Fort Hood shooting. She did an awesome job, I hope she is better soon. I'm sure there were plenty of people there responding at the same time the shooting was going on, and we don't know where all those rounds went yet.

          If you don't know what "engage the threat" means... It means you shoot that threat center mass, or in the head in the case of possible body armor, and stop the action of the shooter as soon as possible.

          How would I let responding officers know I was the good guy? I'd show them my retired badge and ID when they arrived, and give them a written statement to add to their report. The odds of them arriving and the incident still being active around here are way low. Read below.

          Contrary to popular belief... First responding officers to a shooting incident are responsible for determining who the threat is. They do not go in firing at anyone with a gun. It's part of the job. Do accidents happen? Yes. Especially with under cover officers, and officers from other agencies. That's why it is important to determine your target, and not walk in and shoot a witness that just wrestled the gun from the real shooter.
          As far as "rights" are concerned; I look at them this way... I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Vigilis View Post
            The recent tragedy at Ft. Hood and some of the comments about it here on the board got me thinking. Imagine there's an active shooter and there's an off duty cop/plainclothes cop/ccw there who returns fire. When the police respond, they'd just encounter two people shooting at each other. How do they tell who is the aggressor and who is the defender? What would you do?

            Also, if one is the off duty/plainclothes/ccw, what would you do to let the police know that you're the good guy, assuming that it's still an active gunfight?
            It's real simple. We shoot the one that is holding his gun canted sideways.

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            • #7
              I'd be the guy proning myself out with my shield/ID in my hand not my weapon....
              Went to Get a Cold Pop

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ShantyIrish View Post
                I'd be the guy proning myself out with my shield/ID in my hand not my weapon....
                I assume this is after the bad guy is no longer a threat.... If so, then I agree. My Badge would be in one hand, gun in the other. I or someone I yell at would be telling 911 dispatch that the ugly guy in the jeans and t-shirt shooting the glock is a COP, and to please refrain from shooting me.

                Uniformed officers are ALWAYS the boss after they arrive on scene. They have to determine who is good and who is bad. If they say, "drop your gun and eat dirt", I will be dropping my gun and eating dirt. They can confirm my identity after they get everything sorted out.
                I see dumb people in the mirror.

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                • #9
                  I assumed that would be understood....along with all the propper notifications/descriptions to 911 as I'm about to take or taking action.....
                  Went to Get a Cold Pop

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by biw371 View Post
                    It's real simple. We shoot the one that is holding his gat canted sideways.
                    You weren't supposed to tell people that! I fixed it for you.
                    As far as "rights" are concerned; I look at them this way... I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Michigan View Post
                      I or someone I yell at would be telling 911 dispatch that the ugly guy in the jeans and t-shirt shooting the glock is a COP, and to please refrain from shooting me.
                      And even then you never know. If you recall the Trolly Square mall shooting in UT, despite the off-duty's wife describing him to the dispatcher for just this reason that information was not relayed to the ROs. Scary thought. And though it worked out that mis/noncommunication is unacceptable.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DeputyDuc View Post
                        And even then you never know. If you recall the Trolly Square mall shooting in UT, despite the off-duty's wife describing him to the dispatcher for just this reason that information was not relayed to the ROs. Scary thought. And though it worked out that mis/noncommunication is unacceptable.
                        agreed. It's a catch 22.
                        I see dumb people in the mirror.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Do my best to end the engagement before the Ro's arrive/ If cant or dont, drop my gun and follow thier commands. Once ID'ed give intel.
                          My OODA Loop: Observe, Over-react, Destroy and Apologize.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In the interst of OPSEC, moderators, please delete these posts!!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by biw371 View Post
                              It's real simple. We shoot the one that is holding his gun canted sideways.
                              You Know why they shoot it sideways?????























                              Because that is how it came in the box......

                              Comment

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