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Question on a 647 (f) scenario.

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  • Question on a 647 (f) scenario.

    I was asked about this scenario today. If the driver of the vehicle is asked to step out of the car and later arrested of a DUI, can the passenger be arrested for drunk in public 647 (f), if they are belligerent and seemed uncooperative but never leave the same vehicle?

  • #2
    yes............
    Today's Quote:

    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
    Albert Einstein

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    • #3
      ^^^^what he said^^^^
      The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

      "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

      "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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      • #4
        an f arrest can be made pretty much anywhere that is accessible to the public

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        • #5
          All you have to do is articulate the subject was in such an intoxicated state that he was unable to satisfactorily care for the health and safety of himself or others! Simple as that..............
          Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

          [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

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          • #6
            Texas Law for PI:

            Sec. 49.02. PUBLIC INTOXICATION.

            (a) A person commits an offense if the person appears in a public place while intoxicated to the degree that the person may endanger the person or another.

            (a-1) For the purposes of this section, a premises licensed or permitted under the Alcoholic Beverage Code is a public place.

            (b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the alcohol or other substance was administered for therapeutic purposes and as a part of the person's professional medical treatment by a licensed physician.

            (c) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

            (d) An offense under this section is not a lesser included offense under Section 49.04.

            (e) An offense under this section committed by a person younger than 21 years of age is punishable in the same manner as if the minor committed an offense to which Section 106.071, Alcoholic Beverage Code, applies.

            Added by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994. Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1013, Sec. 12, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.

            Amended by: Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 68, Sec. 25, eff. September 1, 2007.
            -SC
            Education ... has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
            - G. M. Trevelyan

            B.S. Business Administration - Texas A&M 1990
            MPA - University of Texas Dallas 2004
            Graduate Certificate in Criminal Justice - American Military University 2006
            Graduate Certificate in Accounting - University of Dallas 2008
            Various Graduate Credits - UoP
            MA Christian Ministry Chaplaincy Dallas Baptist University 20%
            DPA Valdosta State 30%

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            • #7
              Thank you to everyone.

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              • #8
                The only place you are safe as a drunk is inside your home!! But if you step outside..................you're free game.
                This profession is not for people looking for positive reinforcement from the public. Very often it can be a thankless job and you can't desire accolades, because those are not usually forthcoming. Just do your job to the best of your ability and live with the decisions you've made.

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                • #9
                  (**I am not a Sworn LEO. I am posting a futher question for clarification**)

                  Originally posted by SgtCHP View Post
                  All you have to do is articulate the subject was in such an intoxicated state that he was unable to satisfactorily care for the health and safety of himself or others! Simple as that..............
                  We had a similar occurance this last halloween... The driver was deuce and while we waiting for CHP to arrive for an eval the Deputy arrested the passenger for 647f, even though the passenger did not leave the passenger seat and the car was not going to be towed (lit him up as he pulled into his driveway). The deputy 849(b)'d him because he felt it was weak and possibly entrapment..

                  So, could the argument be made that such a scenario would be entrapment, because the Deputy could be construed as the factor which forced this individual to be in violation of the law? Or could the sanctuary of the vehicle also be considered a public place?
                  sigpic
                  Any and all statements made by this account represent my sole opinion and do not reflect an official opinion, belief, or policy of any department or agency to which I am employed by. Further, I am in no way authorized to speak on behalf of any department or agency.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SSD View Post
                    We had a similar occurance this last halloween... The driver was deuce and while we waiting for CHP to arrive for an eval the Deputy arrested the passenger for 647f, even though the passenger did not leave the passenger seat and the car was not going to be towed (lit him up as he pulled into his driveway). The deputy 849(b)'d him because he felt it was weak and possibly entrapment..

                    So, could the argument be made that such a scenario would be entrapment, because the Deputy could be construed as the factor which forced this individual to be in violation of the law? Or could the sanctuary of the vehicle also be considered a public place?
                    no entrapment......

                    If everyone in the car is drunk to the point that they cannot 'care for their safety and the safety of others' then everyone in the car goes to jail.....

                    No charges are filed on them (at least where I worked)...they get booted per 849(b)(2) PC in the morning after they sober up.....
                    The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                    "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                    "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      (a) A person commits an offense if the person appears in a public place while intoxicated to the degree that the person may endanger the person or another.

                      This part seems vague to me. It would seem as if it would be the word of the Officer who has to clearly articulate in court that the violator is clearly intoxicated to the point where he or she can no longer maintain control.

                      Could the violator state in court that he was in full control and could the charges be dismissed, if the articulation of the Officer is unclear in his report or his articulation is not strong enough?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by baycop72 View Post
                        (a) A person commits an offense if the person appears in a public place while intoxicated to the degree that the person may endanger the person or another.

                        This part seems vague to me. It would seem as if it would be the word of the Officer who has to clearly articulate in court that the violator is clearly intoxicated to the point where he or she can no longer maintain control.

                        Could the violator state in court that he was in full control and could the charges be dismissed, if the articulation of the Officer is unclear in his report or his articulation is not strong enough?
                        a lot of what we do is subjective. if the report is not clear enough, ideally a supervisor will kick it back to the arresting officer for more details. i typically PAS people i arrest for F because that takes the guesswork out of the equation. unfortunately, even an F arrest with a high PAS result is often NCF'd by the DA because they just dont have the resources to deal with it (unless the subject is a chronic offender, and even then its a pain to get them to file).

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                        • #13
                          I had an F kicked back by the DA because I didn't articulate well enough how he was unable to care for himself. The DA specifically said "Please articulate better on the next one how he couldn't care for him self - fell down, ****ed on himself, couldn't walk, etc."

                          Inside a vehicle in public enough, from my understanding.

                          If he's obstructing or delaying you, sounds like 148(a)(1) also.

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                          • #14
                            I testified today on a 647(f) court trial. The DA will prosecute if someone racks up three f's in six months. This guy has had over 100 over the years, and got three in a few weeks.

                            My testimony supporting him being unable to care for himself was that he was so intoxicated, he could not make critical decisions, could not make basic, simple decisions in a reasonable amount of time and would be unable to react rapidly enough and appropriately to any hazard that presented itself to him.

                            Convicted, 180 days. Unfortunately, the judge made the three convictions (180 days per) run concurrent instead of consecutive.
                            Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                            I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

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                            • #15
                              What makes an cooperative, intoxicated passenger a danger to himself or others sitting inside a vehicle that has been pulled over? Why not score a few PR points and offer to call a friend or a cab for him?
                              Those who are successful at what they do don't give a rip about what others think about them.

                              We don't rent pigs.

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