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  • Unlawful search/actions?

    Well let me start off by saying this scenario is regarding a friend of mine, not me, so let's leave the sarcastic "I know it's really your situation" deal out of the answers please. He was pulled over for not making a complete stop at a stop sign, and the officer approached and asked for drivers license, paperwork, etc. Friend asked him why he was pulled over since he did make a complete stop (not a rolling stop), and the LEO informed him that "he was easier to catch than the bike behind him" (who did not make a complete stop). When the LEO went to write up the citation and walk back to the car, my friend asked if they could discuss this further. I know that in most instances that is the wrong thing to say, but in this situation, I found it fitting since the officer had made such an absurd comment. The LEO proceeded to open the car door, forcefully pull him out (not violently however) and walk him to the back of the police car to sit. He then searched his car without consent from my friend, and there was obviously no Reasonable Suspicion/Probable Cause at the time. Now, my question is, is this unlawful in any way? I thought that there needed to be RS/PC for a search without consent, otherwise it would be unlawful to search without asking. Also, was pulling him out of the car unlawful? The story is 100% true, all fact and no details left out or misinformation, and my friend is drug/alcohol free. Thanks for any input/advice.

  • #2
    How do you know the Officer didn't have RS/PC to search your car, eh, I mean your friends car?
    sigpic
    Let your watchword be duty, and know no other talisman of success than labor. Let honor be your guiding star in your dealing with your superiors, with your fellows, with all. Be as true to a trust reposed as the needle to the pole. Stand by the right even to the sacrifice of life itself, and learn that death is preferable to dishonor. ~ Gov. Richard Coke, October 4, 1876

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    • #3
      I understand its a stupid, probably overasked question but he doesn't have an account on here. He's an honest guy, and it was purely a traffic stop. He doesn't have tint on the windows, and his car is empty except for the occasional trash in the console.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by COrancher View Post
        I understand its a stupid, probably overasked question but he doesn't have an account on here. He's an honest guy, and it was purely a traffic stop. He doesn't have tint on the windows, and his car is empty except for the occasional trash in the console.
        Being clean has nothing to do with it. Had a trooper here pull out 10,000+ in cash, dope and two guns out of a car last night that was clean as a whistle and tint that was well below the legal limit.
        sigpic
        Let your watchword be duty, and know no other talisman of success than labor. Let honor be your guiding star in your dealing with your superiors, with your fellows, with all. Be as true to a trust reposed as the needle to the pole. Stand by the right even to the sacrifice of life itself, and learn that death is preferable to dishonor. ~ Gov. Richard Coke, October 4, 1876

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        • #5
          This isn't your "roomate" is it?

          http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=130041
          sigpic
          Let your watchword be duty, and know no other talisman of success than labor. Let honor be your guiding star in your dealing with your superiors, with your fellows, with all. Be as true to a trust reposed as the needle to the pole. Stand by the right even to the sacrifice of life itself, and learn that death is preferable to dishonor. ~ Gov. Richard Coke, October 4, 1876

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          • #6
            COrancher,

            I understand that the subject of the stop was your friend (I am assuming this was told to you at a later date rather than witnessing the incident firsthand.) However, take a second or two to go over what you;ve been told:
            1) Your friend came to a complete stop but the bike behind him did not? This sounds somewhat hard to accomplish for the bike unless coming to the stop sign at a specific (though not impossible) time window behind your friend.
            2) If the officer's remarks and actions sound unusual and/or unreasonable, it's because it certainly seems so. The question is; did the officer's actions occur as told to you under the circumstances told to you. Mind you, your friend does not have to be a liar in this situation. Most confrontation that occurs between police and law-abiding folks is due to failure to communicate/unfamiliarity with procedure. I, personally, have performed searches with full and written consent, only to have the subject claim that they didn't understand the ordeal (despite signing to indicate that they did understand.) Nerves or embarassment had the subject go through the motions of cooperation, even though they felt put upon. Later there were (polite) questions about the legitimacy of the stop and and search. I tried my best to explain what the subject had done to himself and that questions will be answered (and that answers don't change if the questions keep getting repeated.)

            I was not present at the stop and only have the secondhand word of your friend to make my analysis here. I hope the information I've given you might supply you with any possible answers.

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            • #7
              lol no this is not my roommate texas, I got out of that situation asap and now do not have to deal with him anymore. He's a druggie, this is an entirely different deal. Thanks for your advice Sleepwalk; to clarify, the officer pulled him over after watching the two go pass the stop sign, he stopped, the biker did not, however the officer made the decision to pull him over instead of the other motorist with the excuse I mentioned above. I know this situation is tough to call because, as you mentioned, you weren't there, and I know I wasn't either. I don't despise officers and am not siding with my friend just because he's my buddy, but I am concerned because I've had similar run-ins (traffic related) with officers in the same area who tend to suffer from inflated egos and are very argumentative.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by COrancher View Post
                Friend asked him why he was pulled over since he did make a complete stop (not a rolling stop),
                What exactly is a rolling stop; he was either rolling, or stopped. This is a contradiction of terms.

                Originally posted by COrancher View Post
                the LEO informed him that "he was easier to catch than the bike behind him" (who did not make a complete stop).
                I would have to question any LEO who made such a comment, if he did, indeed say that.
                “Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”

                Miyamoto Musashi

                “Life Is Hard, But It's Harder When You're Stupid”

                George V. Higgins (from The Friends of Eddie Coyle)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by COrancher View Post
                  lol no this is not my roommate texas, I got out of that situation asap and now do not have to deal with him anymore. He's a druggie, this is an entirely different deal. Thanks for your advice Sleepwalk; to clarify, the officer pulled him over after watching the two go pass the stop sign, he stopped, the biker did not, however the officer made the decision to pull him over instead of the other motorist with the excuse I mentioned above. I know this situation is tough to call because, as you mentioned, you weren't there, and I know I wasn't either. I don't despise officers and am not siding with my friend just because he's my buddy, but I am concerned because I've had similar run-ins (traffic related) with officers in the same area who tend to suffer from inflated egos and are very argumentative.
                  Yeah, you're obviously an "expert" on these matters

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                  • #10
                    If he thinks he's innocent of the violation, plead not guilty. If he thinks his vehicle was searched illegally, file a complaint with the agency. We were not there and you're not going to find anyone here that's going to take the word of the violator over the officer and/or badmouth the officer in question.

                    p.s. If he came to a complete stop and the bike did not, I would assume the bike would have hit him.
                    Last edited by SgtScott31; 11-02-2009, 09:52 AM.
                    I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

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                    • #11
                      How do you know there was no PC?
                      sigpic

                      I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RoadKingTrooper View Post
                        Yeah, you're obviously an "expert" on these matters

                        IdaDavidIdaOceanTom
                        LOL

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                        • #13
                          If he' thinks it was wrong, stop posting on a LE board and go to the IA of the department that it happened. They will conduct the investigation. If he is wrong, hopefully the IA will file charges for making false reports.
                          Being a good street cop is like coming to work in a wet suit and peeing in your pants. It's a nice warm feeling, but you're the only one who knows anything has happened.

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                          • #14
                            Let me begin by advising you that you DO NOT get to dictate or determine the conditions under which your questions are answered. WE do that. Okay?Now, what you're essentially asking us to do is second guess the actions of another Officer. We don't do that. It doesn't matter if it was you who was stopped, your friend, a cousin, or the guy pumping gas at the Stop and Rob. In the event you, or your "friend" feel the citation was unfair, written in error, or you were charged inappropriately, you go to court and plead "Not Guilty". In the event you feel the Officer's conduct and action(s) were inappropriate, you have the option of complaining to his/her agency. Keep in mind the fact that merely being issued a citation does NOT constitute improper action on the part of the Officer.

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                            • #15
                              I am sure your friend may be leaving something out of the story, therefore you do not not have all the information.

                              Seems absurd to stop the 2nd guy who did make a complete stop all because you couldnt catch up to the 1st guy who did not.
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