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  • #16
    Originally posted by flydream777 View Post
    No, I think that's backwards. You ask for consent before the stop is finished, i.e. before giving back license, insurance, etc... because if you ask afterwards, then the argument can be made that you're unnecessarily prolonging the stop beyond its original scope... it's not a consensual encounter.
    Opposite. If you ask for consent prior to giving them the chance to break the encounter, its not consenual (though in my area we are not as tough on that anymore) but if you do it BEFORE handing the stuff back and breaking the encounter, it is prolonging it.
    For the cops out there: You are an adult. If you want to write someone, write them. If you don't want to write someone, then don't write them.

    "Jeff, you are the best cop on this board"-Anonymous Post

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    • #17
      Because of several judges that we had to deal with at my last duty station (including one that said there is no such thing as a consent search in his opinion), I simply did not bother with them.

      If I have PC to search, then I am going to search if needed. Other than that, as soon as the traffic stop is over, then they are on their way
      The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

      "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

      "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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      • #18
        Name taken is correct. You ask for consent after you have returned their personal belongings otherwise it can be construed as coercion.

        kcso, what YOU are referring to must be done in such as time as not to prolong the traffic stop. Your k-9 can walk the car for no other reason that you want it to, but if you prolong the stop (with no PR/PC) you're in violation.
        sigpic

        I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

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        • #19
          Smurf and those she quoted are correct. You request consent after they are free to leave. Then if they say yes its consensual and you can search as long as it takes or until they say stop.

          As many have stated, very seldom do I ask consent without having PC. By the time I ask I should have enough indicators to create PC. Random consent searches are a waste of time.

          The confusion some are having is concerning a K9. You can't prolong a stop waiting for a K9. The dog sniff has to occur during the reasonable amount of time the stop would have taken.

          Also, someone mentioned having enough ARS to search. There is no level of ARS that authorizes a warrantless search of a vehicle. You either have PC or consent, that's it.
          Due to the Juvenile bickering and annoying trolling committed by members of this forum I have started an igore list. If your name is listed below I can't see you.

          CityCopDC, Fire Moose, Carbonfiberfoot, Damiansolomon

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
            kcso, what YOU are referring to must be done in such as time as not to prolong the traffic stop. Your k-9 can walk the car for no other reason that you want it to, but if you prolong the stop (with no PR/PC) you're in violation.
            I'm not too sure what you said. If I have reasonable suspicion, they are not free to leave and I am going to call the dog. What's a reasonable time to us in my county may seem unreasonable to someone in a city or where your K-9 is down the street. Absent probable cause or reasonable suspicion, I'm not too inclined to go on a fishing expedition.


            Originally posted by leesrt
            The confusion some are having is concerning a K9. You can't prolong a stop waiting for a K9. The dog sniff has to occur during the reasonable amount of time the stop would have taken.
            Good thing I'm not confused. But if that was the case, we might as well just get rid of our K-9 unit.
            sigpic

            " 'Blessed are the Peacemakers', is, I suppose, to be understood in the other world, for in this one they are frequently cursed." - Benjamin Franklin

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            • #21
              Originally posted by kcso View Post
              I'm not too sure what you said. If I have reasonable suspicion, they are not free to leave and I am going to call the dog. What's a reasonable time to us in my county may seem unreasonable to someone in a city or where your K-9 is down the street. Absent probable cause or reasonable suspicion, I'm not too inclined to go on a fishing expedition.
              Yeah man, some people get hung up on the fact that if you're finished writing your tickets by the time the dog gets there, it's no longer reasonable. The supreme court has found at 45 minutes is reasonable in some cases, where as 10 minutes is too long in others.

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              • #22
                I was under the belief that in some jurisdictions you have to basically do a circus act to convince a court that you successfully turned a traffic stop into a consensual encounter right away and truly got the person's consent. Just because they're being detained does not mean that they cannot give consent to search, right?

                Edit: especially if he/she said "Yeah go ahead and search" with the squad car camera running
                Last edited by flydream777; 10-06-2009, 04:10 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by kcso View Post

                  Good thing I'm not confused. But if that was the case, we might as well just get rid of our K-9 unit.
                  Your correct. Lol

                  We were talking about waiting for a K9 because you've got nothing else.

                  You can detain someone if you have good RS but it better be good because if the dog hits you'll have to explain in detail. The guy was acting nervouse and he had a burger king bag in the car won't cut it.

                  If you have PC you don't have to wait for a dog. Start searching.
                  Due to the Juvenile bickering and annoying trolling committed by members of this forum I have started an igore list. If your name is listed below I can't see you.

                  CityCopDC, Fire Moose, Carbonfiberfoot, Damiansolomon

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                  • #24
                    The correct way to obtain legal consent is the way Name Taken stated, although I would say that probably doesn't happen often.

                    Our K9 units tell us to call them by ASAP if we have any inclination they may have something in the vehicle and they also like that we cite the driver if they are going to do an external sniff. Obviously if you find something in the vehicle it's a good idea to have the citation backing the original stop. I still give verbal warnings if nothing was found though.

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                    • #25
                      I suggest you show your students the following clip. This clip sums up what every officer suggests as helpful hints when stopped by the police:

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by sigcopper View Post
                        I suggest you show your students the following clip. This clip sums up what every officer suggests as helpful hints when stopped by the police:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
                        That one is a classic; if only youtube were unblocked on the district server!

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                        • #27
                          There is no level of ARS that authorizes a warrantless search of a vehicle.
                          Leesrt....last I checked Terry search for weapons with ARS applies to person & immediate reach area of vehicle. It's done every day.
                          I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

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                          • #28
                            Dont give them any advice....its their choice if they wish to allow consent.
                            Tell them the law and let them decide what to do when the time comes. Most people know they can say no, thats why its a question and not a statement.

                            As others have have said, if they say no, its not a big deal.
                            "I don't go on "I'maworthlesscumdumpster.com" and post negative **** about cum dumpsters."
                            The Tick

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by kcso View Post
                              I'm not too sure what you said. If I have reasonable suspicion, they are not free to leave and I am going to call the dog. What's a reasonable time to us in my county may seem unreasonable to someone in a city or where your K-9 is down the street. Absent probable cause or reasonable suspicion, I'm not too inclined to go on a fishing expedition.




                              Good thing I'm not confused. But if that was the case, we might as well just get rid of our K-9 unit.

                              You didn't state anything about PC or RS, which is why I responded as I did. You said
                              If I feel there are drugs in the vehicle, and they won't give consent, I'll call a dog. Sorry, but it is suspicious to me. Their attempt to hide whatever it is that was found, by refusing, won't look too good for them in court either. On the other hand, if they don't have anything to hide, who cares?
                              As that statement stands there, you're calling a dog and prolonging a stop because they said no (is how I read it). People have an absolute right to refuse consent. While that might make you curious, I'd LOVE to see case law that says refusal is RS.
                              sigpic

                              I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
                                You didn't state anything about PC or RS, which is why I responded as I did. You said As that statement stands there, you're calling a dog and prolonging a stop because they said no (is how I read it). People have an absolute right to refuse consent. While that might make you curious, I'd LOVE to see case law that says refusal is RS.
                                What I said was

                                Originally posted by kcso
                                If I feel there are drugs in the vehicle, and they won't give consent, I'll call a dog. Sorry, but it is suspicious to me.

                                I for one won't take it personal if they refuse consent. I have other things in life to worry about and I couldn't give a rats as5.
                                I'm sorry, let me be a little more clear. When most officers 'feel' there are drugs in a vehicle, it is based in the very least on reasonable suspicion. Which is based on their training and experience and some pertinent knowledge. Them refusing just adds to it but isn't the main factor. As an officer, I would think you would know that and I wouldn't have to explain it.

                                I also said that if they don't give consent, I couldn't give a rat's as5 and that I have other things to worry about. Translation, they don't want to give consent, and I have no PC/RS, then adios, drive safe!
                                sigpic

                                " 'Blessed are the Peacemakers', is, I suppose, to be understood in the other world, for in this one they are frequently cursed." - Benjamin Franklin

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