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  • #31
    IMHO, there are no grounds for a DWI arrest. There is no evidence of an intoxicated condition prior to or during the accident. SFSTs were not done so the drivers conditon can not be determined. Also, his BAC was on the rise after the wreck. The first hospital's reading was lower than the second and never even exceeded a .08. Depending on the lengh of time between the crash and the last BAC reading...what might his BAC have been during the crash? Like .06 or something? For all we know he could have slammed 2 beers after the crash while waiting for the Police. If his BAC was higher and it left little room for arguement...then..yeah..it might be worth looking into it. In this case..I would do an injury accident report and say a few prayers for the poor guy.
    And the road becomes my bride.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by 10-97UPD View Post
      IMHO, there are no grounds for a DWI arrest. There is no evidence of an intoxicated condition prior to or during the accident. SFSTs were not done so the drivers conditon can not be determined. Also, his BAC was on the rise after the wreck. The first hospital's reading was lower than the second and never even exceeded a .08. Depending on the lengh of time between the crash and the last BAC reading...what might his BAC have been during the crash? Like .06 or something? For all we know he could have slammed 2 beers after the crash while waiting for the Police. If his BAC was higher and it left little room for arguement...then..yeah..it might be worth looking into it. In this case..I would do an injury accident report and say a few prayers for the poor guy.
      No grounds? Did you miss the part in the original thread about the meds? As already mentioned once, some seizure meds can cause drowsiness or other symptoms where one should not drive. Throw some alcohol on top of it, and you could easily have impairment. Just becase SFSTs were not done does not mean you have no evidence (odor of alcoholic beverage, HGN, lack of fine motor skills, slurred speech, etc etc - the list could go on, and those who specialize in DUI arrests could elaborate on many more). Even without the addition of drugs, plenty of people can show numerous signs of impairment with a BAC below .08%. Take for instance a 100 lb, 21 yr old girl with an empty stomach and low alcohol tolerance. She could easily be all over the road with a .06%.

      The ole "drinking after the crash" has been scientifically disproven. No matter when and how many, the body still has to absorb the alcohol, going through several chemical processes before raising the BAC.
      I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

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      • #33
        Originally posted by SgtScott31 View Post
        No grounds? Did you miss the part in the original thread about the meds? As already mentioned once, some seizure meds can cause drowsiness or other symptoms where one should not drive. Throw some alcohol on top of it, and you could easily have impairment. Just becase SFSTs were not done does not mean you have no evidence (odor of alcoholic beverage, HGN, lack of fine motor skills, slurred speech, etc etc - the list could go on, and those who specialize in DUI arrests could elaborate on many more). Even without the addition of drugs, plenty of people can show numerous signs of impairment with a BAC below .08%. Take for instance a 100 lb, 21 yr old girl with an empty stomach and low alcohol tolerance. She could easily be all over the road with a .06%.

        The ole "drinking after the crash" has been scientifically disproven. No matter when and how many, the body still has to absorb the alcohol, going through several chemical processes before raising the BAC.
        No sir...I didnt miss the part about the meds. I agree drinking while on certain medications does magnify the effects. However, the given scenario didnt give much into detail about the Officer's observation pertaining to signs of intoxication possibly due to meds or the alcohol. I understand what you are saying and agree 110% with your above post.

        A 21 yr old college girl who never drinks does 4 shots, attempts to drive home and I stop her for driving all over the road. She displays all of the signs of intoxication, fails SFSTs and blows a .04....do I make the arrest? ABOSOLUTLEY.

        Same with the alcohol and drugs mixture. Low BAC but highly intoxicated...obviously drugs or an inexperieced drinker.

        HOWEVER...In my jurisiticiton it is hard to get a DWI on drugs conviction without an evaluation by an Officer who is a DRE (drug recognition expert) This means they a have taken part in an intensive training which enables them to evaluate persons under the influence of drugs. They can do tests a side from the standard SFSTs like heart rate measurements..ect. They also can to identify certain behaviors and relate it to what type of drug the subject may be on..ie depressants. They can testify to alot more than I can because I dont have that specific training. Can I make a DWI drug arrest with out it? Sure..articulate what I obseved and show a blood test supporting the drugs but it can be miserable.

        Ive been through all of the standard DWI trial questions..yes ive been drunk before, yes Ive been around intoxicated persons in a social setting..yes ive been trained in SFST. Most of our DWI cases go to trial. With that in mind, its weather or not you have a solid case that determines the arrest or not arrest decision. If the specific case in this thread happened in my jurisdiction and I had strictly nothing more to go on but the original post...Im not going to arrest. Your situation might be a bit different. Id rather bring in 3 solid DWI cases as apposed to 10 borderline ones and maintain a solid reputation in the court.

        Be Safe
        Last edited by 10-97UPD; 10-11-2009, 10:14 PM.
        And the road becomes my bride.

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        • #34
          HOWEVER...In my jurisiticiton it is hard to get a DWI on drugs conviction without an evaluation by an Officer who is a DRE (drug recognition expert)
          That's unfortunate. Although the DRE program is growing, there are not enough going around to help solidify DUI arrests/convictions for those officers already on stops who are not DREs (at least in my area). I was asked to go through the program, but being a Sgt, I simply do not deal with enough DUIDs to keep up with the training.

          I also want to have a solid reputation for DUI convictions, but I am not going to let the ADAs decision in court two days later sway my decision at the time I am dealing with the offender. I think that happens too often. This is not to suggest that an officer ignores what the common practice is in their courts, but I hope they don't throw an arrest away just because they may have a lazy ADA. Thanks for your input.
          I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Outshined
            Well then you can join the ranks of the new officers we are getting. NYS is .08%, you are not doing your job if you don't arrest someone at a .08%. Who cares if the "dudes" in a coma already, you are to arrest people who break the law NYS sets forth. If you do not, you should work at burger king.
            First of all he was below a .08% so im not arresting him. if toxicology came back then i will later. You can be super cop and arrest everyone .05% and above if you want to. I use my discretion on each stop and the circumstances. Its not NEW for guys that make someone park thier car and get a ride. some guys will arrest everyone even when they dont do poorly on the SFST. but they have been drinking then get them back to the station and thier below .08% Ive had .24% pass the SFST and .08% bomb them. If your all over the road ill arrest you. If I stop you for a headlight and your a .09 and were driving fine I probably wont arrest you. I do not have to arrest anyone I dont want to for TRAFFIC! and yes DWI's are traffic. see you at the drive through.

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            • #36
              And FYI to all we have only very recently been able to even mention HGN in court it was never allowed so if they passed all the SFST except HGN you were screwed. Even now some judges dismiss the HGN and if thats allyou got kiss your arrest goodbye. if they were in an accident and hit thier head you can kiss all your SFST goodgye around here. so they better blow or give blood or that case is gone too. There are a few guys who take DWI seriously but honestly most guys only do them for the OT.

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