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Dealing With A Psychopath ?

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  • mommajane
    started a topic Dealing With A Psychopath ?

    Dealing With A Psychopath ?

    I have searched the web & this forum for info. I've found lots of info describing what a psychopath/sociopath is. Most advice I've read on dealing with them is just to steer clear or get away. Social Svcs side will suggest get restraining order & go to counseling, etc; which I would agree with in most cases when physical assault or child abuse is involved. Physical assault cases at least have some evidence so charges can be filed etc.

    I am a counselor & do have quite a bit experience in this area of dysfunctional relationships & domestic issues. However I also realize there appears to be differing degrees or rather ways of acting out the inappropriate behavior by these psychopaths. This behavior can range anywhere from the nonviolent to the well known serial killers we hear of.

    But, I believe most of the in between cases are the ones we do not hear about until after the crime is committed. The psychopath kills his mark when they are no longer cooperative. Many of these are murder/suicides. Often you hear what good guys (or gals) these folks were & people seem surprised that they "just snapped" or then everyone has a story about the warning signs they saw beforehand.

    There seems to be more of this going on than ever before along with sexual predators which I personally believe are interrelated.

    So what do victims do when no crime has YET been committed and/or there is no evidence that LE or the court can act upon, yet people are being threatened? So if you could expound on your thoughts, opinions, experiences would be appreciated. What would you tell a victim if you had a chance before you were called to the scene of their murder? Note: I am not addressing the stereotypical domestics where the abused female never wants to press charges & won't leave. I would like to know more about the cases where folks try to end contact with someone they see as dysfunctional & are stalked & threatened.

    Are there any resources for folks dealing with something like I've described? I know most counselors do not have any expertise in working with real psychopaths or their victims.

  • backinblue
    replied
    Originally posted by mommajane View Post
    This has to do with someone I work with. There have been direct death threats & the means exists to carry this out as well as the stalker has made it quite clear he has nothing to lose.This & many other things have been reported by the victim but there is no evidence to prove it. There has been no physical violence resulting in injury. Women's shelter cannot help unless the victim is willing to file for restraining order. There is no evidence of anything to justify a restraining order. Social services is aware of issues & reported to local PD a request for well person ck after alleged perp made suicide threat on ph to soc. svcs. Local PD failed to respond as "required by law", told victim "Call us if he shoots you or himself"? I overheard this on the phone myself but no proof. This was only report to LE during client's probs with ex. Other than the alleged suicide threat perp has committed no crime/no evidence.

    So, what if, LE & Soc Svc knows this guy, believes he is a psychopath & will not confront without overkill backup & cannot because the crime has not yet occurred. I just do not know what to tell someone in this situation.
    There is enough in any state that I know of to at least get a temporary order in place. If she is not willing to help herself then there is not much the police can do anywhere. If she is granted a peace/restraining/protection order then she can get help from the shelters according to your post. She needs to help herself. Yes any order, no matter what its called is only a piece of paper, but it sounds like she can get the help she needs from a shelter or group if she files. Secondly, an order makes any contact (in most cases) a criminal offense, and a warrant or arrest on scene can be made if police are called. Also make a suggestion to her to document all calls and/or contacts with the person and what was said as a harassment or stalking case can be made if she doesn't have the order. It sounds to me like she wants to claim to be a victim, but not go forward with the steps to get help. If she is unwilling to file for an order shame on her. There are lots of persons in her same situation, but the police can't force her to file or better herself. That is in her shoes. As many have said I believe she needs to get away, and file for the proper legal documentation.

    Leave a comment:


  • LT Dangle
    replied
    You can not help a victim that does not want to help themselves.

    Leave a comment:


  • 99 Fenix
    replied
    a piece of paper isnt bullet poof. get away

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilipCal
    replied
    Good to hear that, as the wording of your post suggests otherwise. In any event, I sincerely hope the situation works itself out for you/your friend.

    Leave a comment:


  • mommajane
    replied
    I have never "blamed" the cops for anything here. Nor would I see it as "their fault" if it goes bad.

    It is just sad & frustrating to see something like this potential tragedy beforehand & apparently nothing can be done. I would guess cops see stuff like this that I have not before & came here looking for any info or insight I might be able to use to help the victim help herself.

    Thanks for your comments.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilipCal
    replied
    Originally posted by mommajane View Post
    Would rather not say as I have already noted I don't think LE has been as helpful as they could be to the situation. Would like to say in their behalf they may know more about alleged perp than I do "legally", although I'm sure I know what's going on psychologically.
    It always seems fashionable to blame the cops,and say they're not being as helpful as they could be. You've been given some very good advice on this thread, and it's YOUR responsibility to act on it, if you feel the problem is that serious. As I noted in a previous reply, we are bound by the law in the same manner as any other entity, and "legal" has to be a serious consideration for a LE agency.The Police are not the solution to all of society's problems. Since you're certain you know more about what's going on psychologically,then implement some of the suggestions which have been advanced in this thread. And, should the situation go south, as well it could, please don't blame it on the cops.

    Leave a comment:


  • mommajane
    replied
    Originally posted by crass cop View Post
    momma- what city and/or county are you in Missouri??
    Would rather not say as I have already noted I don't think LE has been as helpful as they could be to the situation. Would like to say in their behalf they may know more about alleged perp than I do "legally", although I'm sure I know what's going on psychologically.

    Leave a comment:


  • L-1
    replied
    In my state, if someone willfully threatens to commit a crime which will result in death or great bodily injury to another person, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out, and the circumstances in which it is made, are so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to cause the person threatened to reasonably be in sustained fear for his or her own safety or for his or her immediate family's safety, then a felony has been committed.

    I am going to bet that your state has a similar law.

    Leave a comment:


  • KapsFB
    replied
    Originally posted by mommajane View Post
    There have been direct death threats & the means exists to carry this out as well as the stalker has made it quite clear he has nothing to lose. This & many other things have been reported by the victim but there is no evidence to prove it. There has been no physical violence resulting in injury. Women's shelter cannot help unless the victim is willing to file for restraining order. There is no evidence of anything to justify a restraining order.
    Sworn testimony IS evidence and in most cases more than enough to obtain an 'ex parte' protective/restraining order. I think the issue is highlighted in bold above.

    Why is the victim not filing? If 'direct' threats have been made, there's plenty of evidence to obtain the order.

    Leave a comment:


  • crass cop
    replied
    momma- what city and/or county are you in Missouri??

    Leave a comment:


  • TEX_DEPUTY
    replied
    Read Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of The Psychopaths Among Us. Written by Robert D. Hare, PHD, it's a very well written book.

    Leave a comment:


  • NYCDep
    replied
    In NY, you can go to the Supreme Court, Mental Health Part, and petition the court that the person in question is a danger to himself or others. The judge can issue a warrant for the subject and hold a competency hearing to determine if the person requires professional psychiatric observation and help. If the judge does determine this person is a danger he can commit the person for help.

    Leave a comment:


  • just joe
    replied
    Your post contradicts itself. If she has been threatened with death, there has been a crime. What things have been reported and to who? Talk to your local prosecutor about charges and a restraining order. There aren't too many agencies that don't have a 24/7 recording of everything that is said on the phone, so it would be easy enough to check on the "If he shoots you call us" response.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilipCal
    replied
    Originally posted by mommajane View Post
    This has to do with someone I work with. There have been direct death threats & the means exists to carry this out as well as the stalker has made it quite clear he has nothing to lose. This & many other things have been reported by the victim but there is no evidence to prove it. There has been no physical violence resulting in injury. Women's shelter cannot help unless the victim is willing to file for restraining order. There is no evidence of anything to justify a restraining order. Social services is aware of issues & reported to local PD a request for well person ck after alleged perp made suicide threat on ph to soc. svcs. Local PD failed to respond as "required by law", told victim "Call us if he shoots you or himself"? I overheard this on the phone myself but no proof. This was only report to LE during client's probs with ex. Other than the alleged suicide threat perp has committed no crime/no evidence.

    So, what if, LE & Soc Svc knows this guy, believes he is a psychopath & will not confront without overkill backup & cannot because the crime has not yet occurred. I just do not know what to tell someone in this situation.
    We're bound by the very law we enforce. You should also know that it's encumbent on the intended "victim" to take certain reasonable steps to protect himself. As has been noted, stalking is a crime, as is making threats, or harrasing another person. The "victim" is the person who must report these incidents. OTH, if no crime has been committed, no threat(s), no harrassment taken place, there is no action the police can take.

    Leave a comment:

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