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  • Az Carry question

    I have only been a Ofc out here in Az for a short while. While I was in the academy I had a Sgt tell us to get our CCW so that way we can go into bars and carry and drink then fall under CCW but since we are Ofc's we are allowed to carry into bar. Well I told someone that the other day and they said it is a crime, which it is to carry into a bar. I told her that it would be for her but since I am a Ofc I am allowed to carry pretty much everywhere per HR 218. She still told me that she does not think I can. Now I am not saying that I plan on going into a bar drinking while I am carrying because that is a bad combo. Its just the fact of knowing who is right that matters to me.


    I did find ARS 13-3102.c.4 Subsection A, paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 7, 10, 11, 12 and 13 of this section shall not apply to: A person specifically licensed, authorized or permitted pursuant to a statute of this state or of the United States.


    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatD...13&DocType=ARS

    ARS 13-3102;

    A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:
    1. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 except a pocket knife concealed on his person; or
    2. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 concealed within immediate control of any person in or on a means of transportation; or
    3. Manufacturing, possessing, transporting, selling or transferring a prohibited weapon; or
    4. Possessing a deadly weapon or prohibited weapon if such person is a prohibited possessor; or
    5. Selling or transferring a deadly weapon to a prohibited possessor; or
    6. Defacing a deadly weapon; or
    7. Possessing a defaced deadly weapon knowing the deadly weapon was defaced; or
    8. Using or possessing a deadly weapon during the commission of any felony offense included in chapter 34 of this title; or
    9. Discharging a firearm at an occupied structure in order to assist, promote or further the interests of a criminal street gang, a criminal syndicate or a racketeering enterprise; or
    10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01; or
    11. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering an election polling place on the day of any election carrying a deadly weapon; or
    12. Possessing a deadly weapon on school grounds; or
    13. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering a nuclear or hydroelectric generating station carrying a deadly weapon on his person or within the immediate control of any person; or
    14. Supplying, selling or giving possession or control of a firearm to another person if the person knows or has reason to know that the other person would use the firearm in the commission of any felony; or
    15. Using, possessing or exercising control over a deadly weapon in furtherance of any act of terrorism as defined in section 13-2301 or possessing or exercising control over a deadly weapon knowing or having reason to know that it will be used to facilitate any act of terrorism as defined in section 13-2301.
    B. Subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section shall not apply to a person in his dwelling, on his business premises or on real property owned or leased by that person.
    C. Subsection A, paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 7, 10, 11, 12 and 13 of this section shall not apply to:
    1. A peace officer or any person summoned by any peace officer to assist and while actually assisting in the performance of official duties; or
    2. A member of the military forces of the United States or of any state of the United States in the performance of official duties; or
    3. A warden, deputy warden or correctional officer of the state department of corrections; or
    4. A person specifically licensed, authorized or permitted pursuant to a statute of this state or of the United States.
    D. Subsection A, paragraphs 3 and 7 of this section shall not apply to:
    1. The possessing, transporting, selling or transferring of weapons by a museum as a part of its collection or an educational institution for educational purposes or by an authorized employee of such museum or institution, if:
    (a) Such museum or institution is operated by the United States or this state or a political subdivision of this state, or by an organization described in 26 United States Code section 170(c) as a recipient of a charitable contribution; and
    (b) Reasonable precautions are taken with respect to theft or misuse of such material.
    2. The regular and lawful transporting as merchandise; or
    3. Acquisition by a person by operation of law such as by gift, devise or descent or in a fiduciary capacity as a recipient of the property or former property of an insolvent, incapacitated or deceased person.
    E. Subsection A, paragraph 3 of this section shall not apply to the merchandise of an authorized manufacturer of or dealer in prohibited weapons, when such material is intended to be manufactured, possessed, transported, sold or transferred solely for or to a dealer, a regularly constituted or appointed state, county or municipal police department or police officer, a detention facility, the military service of this or another state or the United States, a museum or educational institution or a person specifically licensed or permitted pursuant to federal or state law.
    F. Subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a belt holster which holster is wholly or partially visible, or carried in a scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons which scabbard or case is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage. Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, map pocket, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.
    G. Subsection A, paragraph 10 of this section shall not apply to shooting ranges or shooting events, hunting areas or similar locations or activities.
    H. Subsection A, paragraph 3 of this section shall not apply to a weapon described in section 13-3101, subsection A, paragraph 7, subdivision (e), if such weapon is possessed for the purposes of preparing for, conducting or participating in lawful exhibitions, demonstrations, contests or athletic events involving the use of such weapon. Subsection A, paragraph 12 of this section shall not apply to a weapon if such weapon is possessed for the purposes of preparing for, conducting or participating in hunter or firearm safety courses.
    I. Subsection A, paragraph 12 of this section shall not apply to the possession of a:
    1. Firearm that is not loaded and that is carried within a means of transportation under the control of an adult provided that if the adult leaves the means of transportation the firearm shall not be visible from the outside of the means of transportation and the means of transportation shall be locked.
    2. Firearm for use on the school grounds in a program approved by a school.
    J. The operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the employee of the operator or sponsor or the agent of the sponsor, including a public entity or public employee, is not liable for acts or omissions pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 10 of this section unless the operator, sponsor, employee or agent intended to cause injury or was grossly negligent.
    K. Misconduct involving weapons under subsection A, paragraph 9, 14 or 15 of this section is a class 3 felony. Misconduct involving weapons under subsection A, paragraph 3, 4, 8 or 13 of this section is a class 4 felony. Misconduct involving weapons under subsection A, paragraph 12 of this section is a class 1 misdemeanor unless the violation occurs in connection with conduct which violates the provisions of section 13-2308, subsection A, paragraph 5, section 13-2312, subsection C, section 13-3409 or section 13-3411, in which case the offense is a class 6 felony. Misconduct involving weapons under subsection A, paragraph 5, 6 or 7 of this section is a class 6 felony. Misconduct involving weapons under subsection A, paragraph 1, 2, 10 or 11 of this section is a class 1 misdemeanor.
    L. For the purposes of this section:
    1. "Public establishment" means a structure, vehicle or craft that is owned, leased or operated by this state or a political subdivision of this state.
    2. "Public event" means a specifically named or sponsored event of limited duration either conducted by a public entity or conducted by a private entity with a permit or license granted by a public entity. Public event does not include an unsponsored gathering of people in a public place.
    3. "School" means a public or nonpublic kindergarten program, common school or high school.
    4. "School grounds" means in, or on the grounds of, a school.
    Why do people think they have the right not to listen when they are told to roll a window down or unlock a door?

  • #2
    As aLEO you ARE permitted to carry in an establishment. Your friend , IMO, is a bleeding heart antigun/cop liberal that obviously feels you aren't responsible enough to carry. As an officer of the Court, certified in Az. you are entitled to all the privilrges & responsibilities ---tell her to take a hike..........

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by hemicop View Post
      As aLEO you ARE permitted to carry in an establishment. Your friend , IMO, is a bleeding heart antigun/cop liberal that obviously feels you aren't responsible enough to carry. As an officer of the Court, certified in Az. you are entitled to all the privilrges & responsibilities ---tell her to take a hike..........
      The thing is that she works at a gun store and teaches a ccw class. So she thinks she knows the laws but in reality does not.
      Why do people think they have the right not to listen when they are told to roll a window down or unlock a door?

      Comment


      • #4
        Your friend is wrong, and I have seen this with other civilian CCW instructors. There is a lot of myth and rumor that floats around certain CCW classes.

        I believe the question isn't a title 13 issue (criminal code), but falls under Title 4 (liquor laws). Title 4 is where the statute that prohibits carrying a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol except for seeking emergency aid and the person does not consume while seeking said aid can be found. 4-244.29, however the VERY FIRST LINE of the statute reads, "For any person other than a peace officer,..."

        Being certified by AZPOST you are a peace officer. Issue is settled. CCW or not. I would make sure to carry my commision card. An old timer rangemaster told me if I carry my gun I carry my badge. Well, I always carry my gun, so I always have my flatbadge with me. I think it is a moot point ayways.

        If you are concealed, no one will know you have it. If you have to deploy it( armed robbery, etc), then you're acting as a peace officer in a capacity you have taken an oath to.

        Now, as it was explained to me, you are subject to your departmental policy. You could be well within ARS, but be in violation of policy. I would check department policy on off-duty carry.

        I don't think it was anything to do with HR 218, which I believe has more to do with officers traveling between states than within in their own.

        If in doubt ask someone in your department you trust, a senior guy on a different squad. But, I believe you'll find the answers to match hemicop's.

        It's a silly thought, too. Telling a cop he can't carry a gun. What good is a cop without his gun when the SHTF? Just another witness or victim.
        While you're reading this, your enemy is training.
        Speed is fine. Accuracy is final. Only hits counts. You cannot miss fast enough to catch up.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Night_Shift View Post
          Your friend is wrong, and I have seen this with other civilian CCW instructors. There is a lot of myth and rumor that floats around certain CCW classes.

          I believe the question isn't a title 13 issue (criminal code), but falls under Title 4 (liquor laws). Title 4 is where the statute that prohibits carrying a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol except for seeking emergency aid and the person does not consume while seeking said aid can be found. 4-244.29, however the VERY FIRST LINE of the statute reads, "For any person other than a peace officer,..."

          Being certified by AZPOST you are a peace officer. Issue is settled. CCW or not. I would make sure to carry my commision card. An old timer rangemaster told me if I carry my gun I carry my badge. Well, I always carry my gun, so I always have my flatbadge with me. I think it is a moot point ayways.

          If you are concealed, no one will know you have it. If you have to deploy it( armed robbery, etc), then you're acting as a peace officer in a capacity you have taken an oath to.

          Now, as it was explained to me, you are subject to your departmental policy. You could be well within ARS, but be in violation of policy. I would check department policy on off-duty carry.

          I don't think it was anything to do with HR 218, which I believe has more to do with officers traveling between states than within in their own.

          If in doubt ask someone in your department you trust, a senior guy on a different squad. But, I believe you'll find the answers to match hemicop's.

          It's a silly thought, too. Telling a cop he can't carry a gun. What good is a cop without his gun when the SHTF? Just another witness or victim.
          I am with you. But if I was in a bar I would be drinking which means that I would not be carrying. But that is not the matter at hand. Thanks for the correct ARS. I am the same way if I carry I carry flat badge and my duty badge on my hip next to my gun or around my neck with my id when I carry off duty. Thanks for all the reply's.
          Why do people think they have the right not to listen when they are told to roll a window down or unlock a door?

          Comment


          • #6
            If you live and work in Parker, after about 3 months on the job every local knows you are an officer. This limits your ability to drink (or at least, the amount you may choose to drink), and where you may decide to drink, in Parker.

            In any event, I used to have to give the Internal Affairs class at our academy, known in our slang as the "Booze, Bucks, and Babes" lecture. Those were the three things that got most (male) agents in trouble.
            Go slow, and check department regs or SOP's about off duty carry. I have found old timers who simply ignored the rules, or had forgotten them. Rely on written policy.
            "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
            John Stuart Mill

            Comment


            • #7
              Listen to HEMI, he is wise.

              From a fellow small town police officer; stay away from the bars or establishments in your own city. I live almost 50 miles from the city I work in for many reasons. I enjoy a beer or two with a meal and if I had one or two in the city I work in, I would be lynched. Believe me.

              Good Luck.
              -918-

              Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3:18

              Clinging to my guns and religion since 1975

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by -918- View Post
                Listen to HEMI, he is wise.

                From a fellow small town police officer; stay away from the bars or establishments in your own city. I live almost 50 miles from the city I work in for many reasons. I enjoy a beer or two with a meal and if I had one or two in the city I work in, I would be lynched. Believe me.

                Good Luck.
                I live 40 miles from where I work. I have been invited to go out with co-workers in the town we work and have not done it for that reason. I was just out to get the info that I needed to tell her that she is wrong and does not know everything. Thanks for all the replies.
                Why do people think they have the right not to listen when they are told to roll a window down or unlock a door?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Night Shift is dialed in on this one: 4-244 specifically lists peace officers as exempt. Furthermore, the weapons misconduct statute 13-3102C SPECIFICALLY states: "Subsection A, paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 7, 10, 11, 12 and 13 of this section shall not apply to:

                  1. A peace officer......

                  I am also a CCW instructor in addition to my other duties. Ger her straightened up for me, will ya?
                  NRA Life Member

                  The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. - Sir Robert Peel

                  Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sgt. Slaughter View Post
                    Night Shift is dialed in on this one: 4-244 specifically lists peace officers as exempt. Furthermore, the weapons misconduct statute 13-3102C SPECIFICALLY states: "Subsection A, paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 7, 10, 11, 12 and 13 of this section shall not apply to:

                    1. A peace officer......

                    I am also a CCW instructor in addition to my other duties. Ger her straightened up for me, will ya?
                    Hey there. I will. You keeping D3 safe while Frank is out of town??? This is Q41 by the way.
                    Why do people think they have the right not to listen when they are told to roll a window down or unlock a door?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry, bro. Must have me confused with someone else.
                      NRA Life Member

                      The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. - Sir Robert Peel

                      Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

                      Comment

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