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  • Harvard PD pulls gun on man cutting lock of bike...

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...ome&position=7

    Has anyone seen this yet??? Just wondering on what you active LEO's think. Most here at work think she was a bit over-zealous... it was a bike, not a person about to be raped or murdered for her to actually unholster...
    Last edited by nd33909; 09-05-2008, 01:56 PM.

  • #2
    Not over-zealous in the least.....he is a FELONY suspect.....he is going to be detained at gunpoint until the backup troops arrive.....

    When I worked patrol, the gun was sometimes out of the holster several times a shift....
    The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

    "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

    "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by nd33909 View Post
      http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...ome&position=7

      Has anyone seen this yet??? Just wondering on what you active LEO's think. Most here at work think she was a bit over-zealous... it was a bike, not a person about to be raped or murdered for her to actually unholster...
      Exactly what LADEP said. And I have yet to understand why people come to a PRO-LEO forum and try to get us to talk about how another brother or sister was wrong in what they did.

      Comment


      • #4
        well, while i actually have never worked road patrol, when i went to the academy, we were trained in what they called "officer/threat factors", if i remember correctly. a kid cutting a lock of a bike might warrant OC, or baton, MAYBE your taser, but not your firearm. (this was in Florida about 5 to 6 years ago now, and I worked for a sheriff's office for 3 years before moving back to Massachusetts in 2006)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nd33909 View Post
          well, while i actually have never worked road patrol, when i went to the academy, we were trained in what they called "officer/threat factors", if i remember correctly. a kid cutting a lock of a bike might warrant OC, or baton, MAYBE your taser, but not your firearm. (this was in Florida about 5 to 6 years ago now, and I worked for a sheriff's office for 3 years before moving back to Massachusetts in 2006)
          And most of us were trained differently.....esp. in LA......and since you never worked patrol, your experience level is the same as one of our custody deputies....ZERO..........I worked a car for over 16 years.....over six of those training new deputies in how to work patrol.

          If one of them had walked up on a FELONY suspect with only their pepper spray out, they would have had writers cramp for a month from writing all of the memos dictating their officer safety shortcomings.......

          We dont really care if the suspect is only a 'kid'.....there have been more than a few LEOs killed by 'kids'......
          The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

          "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

          "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

          Comment


          • #6
            no, never worked the road, even though i graduated and was dual-certified and could work the road, i chose not to... i would rather be locked in and know that they were ALL dangerous and could potentially cause me great harm, then to have to walk up to cars on the side of the road, with tint so dark (typical in Florida) you cant see in, and take a chance that the person(s) inside meant business. for similar reasons, alot of road guys wouldn't set foot into the jail either, call me crazy, i prefered the jail...

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            • #7
              When you become a P/O, you will learn that you don 't second guess why a P/O may have their gun out. You don't know what additional factors may have come into play during this incident.

              Myself, I'd rather have it out and not need it, than need it and not have it ready. How would you feel if during this arrest, the bad guy produced a secreted handgun and you're standing there with OC or a stick in your hand?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by nd33909 View Post
                no, never worked the road, even though i graduated and was dual-certified and could work the road, i chose not to... i would rather be locked in and know that they were ALL dangerous and could potentially cause me great harm, then to have to walk up to cars on the side of the road, with tint so dark (typical in Florida) you cant see in, and take a chance that the person(s) inside meant business. for similar reasons, alot of road guys wouldn't set foot into the jail either, call me crazy, i prefered the jail...
                We are required to work custody straight out of the academy (we dont have 'dual level' deputies....everybody is trained the same).....I worked it for 22 months.....which was around 21 months, 3 weeks, and six days too long for me......to say that I hated being there was an understatement.....

                To each his own.....some of our guys prefer to work the jails....and will go straight back to custody or court services as soon as they can after completing field training.....
                The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sounds fine to me. I'm sure an Officer of ten years can articulate herself and her actions without difficulty.
                  sigpic

                  I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    nd33309,
                    Read the article first, She said she had her hand on her gun and unlocked it from its safety holster in case she had to use it. That's far from being drawn. Secondly you mentioned "officer/threat factors". If you paid attention in class then maybe you would have learned that a persons size, displayed abilities etc are factors that the officer must take into consideration when approaching a suspect and determining what to do. She is a female, nothing wrong with that, either she can handle herslef or she perceived a threat by this individual ie: she couldn't see his hands.

                    He was trying to cut the lock off right ? with what, bolt cutters, hack saw blade ? I guess you can't get your face caved in by a pair of bolt cutters or even sustain brain damage with a nice whack to the head or cut severly by a hack saw blade causing a person to lose consciousness and have their gun taken away and being shot with it.

                    I think you better stay behind a desk before you get one of us hurt, she was in the right and for the kid to cry foul/ racial profiling is an absolute joke. But you know what, the courts will entertain it like they always do. They got called to the scene for a male black possibly stealing a bike. Where's the racial profiling ? a felon "YES", does it warrant for her to be prepared "NO". did she point the gun at him "NO".

                    Sounds like a whole lot of liberal BS to me. I guess kids can't kill ..........................................

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Pointing your gun at someone IS NOT a use of force. Its merley tactical advantage. So he is cutting a lock off a bike, that means he is 100% not armed? You want to bet your life on that? Guess what, we are the police, and we give orders, not requests, you do it, and you do it now or be prepared for pain compliance, gun facing, or a swift knee to the solarplex (to name a few).
                      The greatest misconception in police work that gets more officers killed is alot of cops are still taught to use the "minimum force necessary". In reality a true professional will always resort to the "Maximum Allowable Force" to resolve a situation. They mean the same thing, however one is a restriction and the other is an empowerment.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nd33909 View Post
                        Most here at work think she was a bit over-zealous.
                        You are falling into the same trap many civilians, politicians and (sadly) a few brass get caught up in. The true question is, were her actions within department policy and the law?

                        If she acted within the law and departmental parameters on field contacts, display of weapons, use of force, etc., then there is no point in even pursuing this. Otherwise you are saying to her, "Yes, we know we said you were authorized to do this, but you should have know we really didn't mean it, and now we're going to punish you for being stupid enough to believe us in the first place."

                        But when your people act within policy and you offer them up as a sacrifice to public opinion anyway, then you don't belong in the business anymore.
                        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A Braintree mother of three, McAuliffe admits she and her colleague used “authoritative voices,” but denies pointing her sidearm at the teen. She said she had her hand on her gun and unlocked it from its safety holster in case she had to use it.

                          “I had it pushed forward so if I needed it it was ready,” she said. “When you can’t see their hands or their face, you don’t know what they have. You have to assume they have a weapon.”

                          This woman is obviously out of control!!! I'm mean really, she and the other officer used "authoritative voices", in addition to placing their hands on their guns. What were they thinking??? If officers are allowed to harass and demean people like this when they're dispatched to calls, what's next!!! (Pity on poor Harvard PD, if the local press really thinks this is even newsworthy.)
                          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                            [If officers are allowed to harass and demean people like this when they're dispatched to calls, what's next!!!
                            He was probably upset because she forgot to hug him afterward. The naïveté of the public kills me at times.

                            Reminds me of a story I read years back about a liberal's first trip to New York City. He wrote that New York seemed to be full of what he assumed were proud war veterans, who liked to show strangers the pistols they must have captured in battle, while asking for money for friends that presumably were in need of costly medical treatment. He commented that those veterans who only captured knives while in battle seemed to be the friendliest, because they were always coming up to him from behind and hugging him while asking for money, presumably for sick associates who were also in need of costly medical treatment.
                            Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LA DEP View Post
                              When I worked patrol, the gun was sometimes out of the holster several times a shift....


                              My FTO had been on the job about 8 years, and he had only "unholstered" twice in his career at that point...

                              Comment

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