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Probable cause // future course of action questions

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  • #16
    1) Is the complainant's suspicion of illegal drug sales reasonable?
    Yes, I get a million CDS calls a night.

    2) Assuming a yes answer to the above, what is YOUR course of action?
    Show up, ID whoever is left, search them if consent allows. Make said arrest(s) if anyone has anything.

    2) Is there probable cause to search the vehicle, or are the complainant's observations insufficient?
    Only if they are visibly using CDS in the vehicle, or anything is in plain view.

    3) What is the complainant's best course of action if/when this scenario is repeated? [Excluding moving.]
    Keep calling 9-1-1, however much we all hate it, jot down tags and notes. Sometimes pictures help us ID folks, but not suspicious activity.
    The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed.

    I Am the Sheepdog.


    "And maybe just remind the few, if ill of us they speak,
    that we are all that stands between
    the monsters and the weak." - Michael Marks


    sigpic

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    • #17
      A simple request...

      rubyrose,
      Please DO NOT move to my jurisdiction; we already have plenty of folks like you wearing foil hats!!!!
      "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" -George Orwell

      "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing diapers." - Blues Brothers

      Comment


      • #18
        We could use more tin foil hats up here.
        The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed.

        I Am the Sheepdog.


        "And maybe just remind the few, if ill of us they speak,
        that we are all that stands between
        the monsters and the weak." - Michael Marks


        sigpic

        Comment


        • #19
          I am mentally already in that "vehicle" that they keeping walk back and fourth to...how I got there...I wont tell...and yes it's legal.

          Comment


          • #20
            Grumpy Scotswoman officially ignores Grumpy Irishman as she has not seen one word contributing anything of any value on any of his posts. Ever. In response to ANYONE.

            Originally posted by grumpyirishman View Post
            rubyrose,
            Please DO NOT move to my jurisdiction; we already have plenty of folks like you wearing foil hats!!!!
            Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
            Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
            A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

            Comment


            • #21
              Since when did I say I expected the beat officer to do this investigative work?

              This is not the city of Atlanta. Thank god. You couldn't pay me to live in Atlanta. The airport alone is enough to drive one crazy, let alone the endless traffic and sprawl.

              This city has less than half the population of Atlanta and less than one-fifth the population of the metropolitan area. It also has neighborhood empowerment teams that bring together citizens, police, and other city administrative personnel to address public safety and quality of life concerns. Don't know if Atlanta has anything of the sort. Too bad if it doesn't.

              I'm not expecting the beat cop to do anything more than he CAN do. I was hoping for an arrest night before last, and I wanted to understand why that didn't happen. Rather than call up or email some hardworking folks who would be answering during their work time, when they have so much else to do, I posted here, since anyone posting responses here is doing so completely of their own free will and is taking the time to do so because, uhhh, they choose it.

              I wanted to know if the observations could amount to probable cause. The majority answer was NO. I rather expected that but I wanted to make sure. I don't want to go making complaints based on ignorance or partial knowledge. On the other hand, I don't want to make assumptions either.

              I got some good answers. There were also very useful suggestions made and explanations given.

              Also it was explained to me that the beat cop I saw doing the "fake" traffic stop was probably doing that on orders from narc or someone else higher up. Great. That means my hunch upon seeing that is correct -- something IS being done. So hooray for my PD.

              Thrown in with the helpful comments are the stupid, sarcastic, unhelpful ones I've come to expect here, because there always has to be SOMEONE or several people doing that. Ok, CHAFF: out. Wheat: in.

              BTW, early morning observations indicated to me that this business is spread around much farther than my neighbors across the street. Normally I am not on my porch early in the morning, but last night I was a bit insomniac, so when dawn came I sat on my porch just to enjoy the peace and quiet. (It's a very busy street, but quiet early in the morning and late at night.) Some things I saw this a.m. I have passed on to my several contacts (the Sector LT, a Crime Prevention Officer, and a Captain who supervises the midnight shift) indicate that many more of my neighbors are involved.

              This is no one-shot deal. As I have discussed with others working on this, there is a whole system running up and down the main street, and, now I see down the side street. Yes, I know this requires organized response and can't be accomplished with 911 calls.

              Ok, now I know there are lots of folks on this board who apparently detest involved citizens and, like grumpyirishman, love to make fun of them. I guess we are all supposed to just roll over and play dead when the criminals take over our streets.

              Well, enjoy your sarcasm. It has no effect on me.

              Meanwhile there is work to do.

              Originally posted by juicesnn4e2
              Ok first of all, you keep expecting the beat officer to do all this investigator work. If this was the city of Atlanta, I'd take your bs call and move on becuase i have 20 calls in the pending. When techinally needs to be done is this needs to get to the investigators and they need to do ... ehh too much info...... but you get what im saying.
              Last edited by rubyrose; 08-18-2008, 01:16 PM.
              Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
              Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
              A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

              Comment


              • #22
                1) I'm going to die of old age. That doesn't make for a very interesting movie ending. Nobody here kills community activists, at least not for their activism.

                2) You can see it as a movie if you want. I have no control over the way you interpret what I say.

                3) If this was a movie I am playing out here, and I ended up dead, then it would be for real, wouldn't it, instead of a movie?

                In which case I want Kathy Najimy. Never heard of her? Well fine. She's a terrific BBW and a fine actress.

                Obviously you have had few encounters with people who are committed to helping their neighborhoods become better places to live. Ah, your life is so impoverished!

                Meanwhile I have work to do. I want to make the Mayor's visit to my streets in a few weeks a big success. Gotta work on the publicity, planning where we are going to go, getting people to turn out. Make sure the police Command Van gets in place as promised, so we can do some recruiting for our various volunteer positions. Get the word out so that people know he and his entire entourage of top administrators will be here so they can talk to them about what needs to be done (in addition to public safety issues). Showing him that our sector can pull a better turnout than any other.

                Oh and also arranging for the anti-gang task force to have a table, as well as one for a couple of grass-roots anti-violence organizations.

                And I have promised a photo-layout with pictures of our citizens' patrol to help with recruiting.

                Also I need to get together some more "My beautiful city" photos for my newspaper blog, to counteract the lies and misinformation posted by the suburban crank circle jerk cabal.

                Dull movie, that.

                Meanwhile...took a bike ride yesterday, had a lovely time, completely without incident.

                QUOTE=juicesnn4e2;1375613]Ruby, when we find you dead in your house with a bullet in the back of your head and your hands and feet tied up, who do you want to play you, in your lifetime movie that your writing out for yourself on this fourm?
                [/QUOTE]
                Last edited by rubyrose; 08-18-2008, 06:21 PM.
                Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
                Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
                A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

                Comment


                • #23
                  Update!!!!!!!!

                  Sitting on my porch this evening, enjoying the night air.

                  Drug dealing neighbor comes out and...

                  removes the plates from her car.

                  It is sitting there in the driveway with no plates.

                  I'll bet she's been stopped a lot. Sector LT said he'd sent word out to patrol about the car and the activity.

                  Of course, no plates is also illegal. And if she puts OTHER plates on, well...that's probable cause.

                  Right?

                  She is really dumb.
                  Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
                  Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
                  A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rubyrose View Post
                    Sitting on my porch this evening, enjoying the night air.

                    Drug dealing neighbor comes out and...

                    removes the plates from her car.

                    It is sitting there in the driveway with no plates.

                    I'll bet she's been stopped a lot. Sector LT said he'd sent word out to patrol about the car and the activity.

                    Of course, no plates is also illegal. And if she puts OTHER plates on, well...that's probable cause.

                    Right?

                    She is really dumb.
                    No plates on a vehicle sitting in a driveway, in and of itself, is not illegal. The moment that vehicle is operated on the roadway is when it becomes illegal.

                    Now, considering the fact that there seems to be a vast amount of knowledge regarding this vehicle, having false registrations plates on the vehicle will create the probable cause... to stop the vehicle. However; this probable cause doesn't extend to allow the officers to search the vehicle. Searching the vehicle can come from either A) Consent (though highly unlikely), B) Search incident to arrest (maybe the driver or any passengers have a warrant), or C) plain view (considering they're dumb, they might be dumb enough to leave something visible).

                    The ability to get into that vehicle will be determined solely by the officers that stop the vehicle and how they conduct the traffic stop.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      +1... I agree with Guams. I would stop the car and see where it goes from there.
                      The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, cannot and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheepdog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed.

                      I Am the Sheepdog.


                      "And maybe just remind the few, if ill of us they speak,
                      that we are all that stands between
                      the monsters and the weak." - Michael Marks


                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thanks!

                        Originally posted by Guams View Post
                        No plates on a vehicle sitting in a driveway, in and of itself, is not illegal. The moment that vehicle is operated on the roadway is when it becomes illegal.

                        Now, considering the fact that there seems to be a vast amount of knowledge regarding this vehicle, having false registrations plates on the vehicle will create the probable cause... to stop the vehicle. However; this probable cause doesn't extend to allow the officers to search the vehicle. Searching the vehicle can come from either A) Consent (though highly unlikely), B) Search incident to arrest (maybe the driver or any passengers have a warrant), or C) plain view (considering they're dumb, they might be dumb enough to leave something visible).

                        The ability to get into that vehicle will be determined solely by the officers that stop the vehicle and how they conduct the traffic stop.
                        Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
                        Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
                        A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Well, our citizens' patrol was advised to report vehicles without license plates.

                          Here you have to have a special permit to have a car sitting on your property without plates. At least, that is my recollection.

                          And how could it possibly be legal to use a LP not assigned to the vehicle? What's the point of requiring license plates if you can have someone else's plate on your car?

                          Originally posted by juicesnn4e2
                          since when is it against the law to remove YOUR plates on YOUR car in YOUR driveway? since when is it against the law to take a car off the road? to switch plates?
                          Last edited by rubyrose; 08-19-2008, 08:23 AM.
                          Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
                          Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
                          A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I found out today that a car with no plates that is visible from the street can be ticketed. That's why we were told to report vehicles without plates.
                            Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
                            Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
                            A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              And now...

                              observed her this morning putting the plates back on the car -- but tying them on with shoestrings.

                              I supposed that is intended to make it easier to take them off and put back on. Can't see how. It seemed to take quite a bit of time for her to make that work.

                              Ha. Guess she doesn't know about battery driven electric screw drivers.
                              Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
                              Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
                              A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Yippee !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                Originally posted by rubyrose View Post
                                Grumpy Scotswoman officially ignores Grumpy Irishman as she has not seen one word contributing anything of any value on any of his posts. Ever. In response to ANYONE.
                                Last edited by grumpyirishman; 03-03-2010, 02:56 PM.
                                "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" -George Orwell

                                "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing diapers." - Blues Brothers

                                Comment

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