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  • Rear Naked Choke

    A “Rear Naked Choke” or a “Guillotine Choke” is considered lethal force since it could cause brain damage if held too long. The word “choke” does infer deadly force.

    With that being said, should we call it something else like “triangular restraint hold” or some other creative name to side step the use of deadly force issue if we only intend to subdue the subject and not kill them? Some people for example, a drunk or a mentally disabled / disturbed person.

    Or should it only be used as a lethal force option?
    "The angle of the dangle is proportional to the heat of the meat." - Beavis

  • #2
    Here, no matter what it is called it will only be justified in lethal force situations.

    Comment


    • #3
      We call it the Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint or LVNR. But, even with such a creative name, it's still pretty much regarded as deadly force.
      Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

      Comment


      • #4
        the rear "naked" chokle is basically a modified BAR arm choke hold- banned for use by city of L.A.;hmmmm,But I don't even think they teach the upper body control holds any more here-instead of LVNR ,we called it the "full" and "modified"-still deadly force.Funny but we're talking a "New" generation that just wants to taser folks and maybe wait for add'l units then injure EACH OTHER trying the swarm technique( seen several instances ,particularly with my Dept) where the 1-5 yr crowd bump heads bruise arms and legs,even once two officers broke fingers,trying to swarm a combative suspect-none of them want to "hit" anyone with batons or body parts-even if authorized in the UOF continuum
        "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Vtfuzz
          Here, no matter what it is called it will only be justified in lethal force situations.

          Here its called the carotid restraint. It's not considered lethal force for us. Works great.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Five-0fromSoCal
            Here its called the carotid restraint. It's not considered lethal force for us. Works great.
            Same here. Very effective and used regularly on aggressers who dont respond to other techniques. Nothing deadly about it. Cuts off blood supply to brain, not air.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Five-0fromSoCal
              Here its called the carotid restraint. It's not considered lethal force for us. Works great.
              AND

              FPD GUY-
              "Same here. Very effective and used regularly on aggressers who dont respond to other techniques. Nothing deadly about it. Cuts off blood supply to brain, not air."

              That's what I'm talking about!!!
              If only all states would consider that being non-lethal. I asked because I've seen a plethora of traffic stops that ends up someone fighting some drunk and not someone who really needs to actually meet God at that moment.

              And who knows if any of them carried a Tazer.

              Drug dealers, felons, etc. oh yeah, you're next in line to meet God.
              "The angle of the dangle is proportional to the heat of the meat." - Beavis

              Comment


              • #8
                the "rear naked choke" is lethal force here ...but we have somethign called the shoulder pin restraint that cuts the blood flow off to the brain that isn't considered lethal force jsut hard empty hand control

                THE SHOULDER PIN taught is the
                Lateral Vascular neck restraint system,
                which offers officers an alternative to
                the use of deadly force. This is the only
                medically researched and approved neck
                restraint system in use today. This system
                has been adapted for ground fighting and
                is easily learned and retained.

                That was taken from the PPCT defensive tactics manual
                Last edited by imtherookie; 04-23-2007, 07:02 PM.
                sigpic"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I reckon, regardless of wether it's "lethal" or "non-lethal", if and/or when I do have to choke someone out I need to brace for the lawsutes. And get the PBA to cover my 6 from the department admin F'ers.
                  "The angle of the dangle is proportional to the heat of the meat." - Beavis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've heard it called neck restraint, neck crank, etc. Bottom line is in a fight I am gonna grab what I can to safely restrain the person. If it is his neck so be it. It simply another thing I can grab until I can access and reposition myself to handcuff him/her. In an altercation the officer doesn't know when the situation is going to be deadly force, so just act accordingly. I mean when I have had to throw someone to the ground and their pumpkin bounces off the ashphalt that too is realllllly deadly force. If I am not attacked then no I wouldn't just use it on someone for fun, but if a uniformed leo is attacked, just what do you think the person wants to do to you. When attacked, your fighting for your life. I mean the person has attacked a uniformed leo, knowing how we will respond and knowing they will go to jail. If you don't believe that to be a potential deadly force situation, then god help you.
                    "Anyone is capable of anything"

                    "I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything I thought it could be".

                    -Peter Gibbons
                    Office Space

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                    • #11
                      DE-lete! Pardon the intrusion.
                      Last edited by RR_Security; 04-23-2007, 08:19 PM.
                      --
                      Capital Punishment means never having to say "you again?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Monster56
                        AND

                        FPD GUY-
                        "Same here. Very effective and used regularly on aggressers who dont respond to other techniques. Nothing deadly about it. Cuts off blood supply to brain, not air."

                        That's what I'm talking about!!!
                        If only all states would consider that being non-lethal. I asked because I've seen a plethora of traffic stops that ends up someone fighting some drunk and not someone who really needs to actually meet God at that moment.

                        And who knows if any of them carried a Tazer.

                        Drug dealers, felons, etc. oh yeah, you're next in line to meet God.
                        Yeah, my dept. is very proactive and gives you the tools to help you survive. It's nice compared to the Dept. I came from, which didn't give a shiat about it's officers. They back their officers 100%. There have been many instances where the caratoid or "rear naked choke" has been used and no discipline whatsoever.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          LVNR Web Site

                          The LVNR program is taught all over the US and world.

                          http://www.nletc.com/courses.php?course_id=1

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Either One-on-One control tactics (Steve Jimmerfield's) LVNR or PPCT's Shoulder Pin, They are Hard Empty Hand Tech's. Trained on both, but I like the LVNR better. Less Lethal and Work GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

                            Oh BTW, thank God for hard plastic back seats
                            When your fun ends, my fun begins

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FPD GUY
                              Yeah, my dept. is very proactive and gives you the tools to help you survive. It's nice compared to the Dept. I came from, which didn't give a shiat about it's officers. They back their officers 100%. There have been many instances where the caratoid or "rear naked choke" has been used and no discipline whatsoever.

                              Thats just it. Having a dept that will back you up 100% is priceless. It's good to learn about all the different techniques and names being used. Thanks to all, I can better articulate what I did (or would do) if it ever happened.
                              "The angle of the dangle is proportional to the heat of the meat." - Beavis

                              Comment

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