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  • Firearms instructors only.

    I am about to conduct a review of firearms training at my dept.

    Please give a brief list of firearms training you deliver, how often this is delivered in a year per officer (i.e. an officer would do this once a year etc), the firearm type i.e. semi-auto or revolver and the level at which you would describe your dept, i.e. "local law enforcement" or "state police" or "worlds best practice" etc, and finally the number of operational police in your dept.

    If possible list the qualification shoot and the pass mark i.e. 100%.

    Any tactical training comprising live fire ONLY, i.e. room clearance live fire exercise.

    Thanks in advance.
    The officer doesn't carry his sword in vain, he's a minister of God to carry out justice. Romans 13

  • #2
    I'm interested to see what you come up with. I am thinking of doing the same thing my self. Right now my department conducts only qualification shoots. Each officer is required to qualify at least once a year, however we do offer at least two quals a year. Minimum qual is 85% (instructors 95%) on a 40 round course, which is mainly a marksmanship course. Now that we have more instructors I am trying to include a combat course and a rifle course, as well as requiring at least two passing quals a year in the short course and combat course. I am still having problems getting people to come to the range in the first place. But a change in command that recently took place may resolve that issue.

    If you like I can email you both my department's short course and the academy's short course.
    stamus contra malum

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    • #3
      PM or post it thanks.

      In the format listed above.
      The officer doesn't carry his sword in vain, he's a minister of God to carry out justice. Romans 13

      Comment


      • #4
        Well I work for the State at a University PD. Department consists of the Chief, Commander and 6 officers. We are a brand new agency that started up with the opening of the campus in 2005.

        We issue SIG P226R’s in 40 with Surefire X200B lights and DG pressure switches along with Remington 1187’s and Colt semi only M4’s with M500A lights. Back up guns are a mix of semis and revolvers in .380, .38, 9mm and .40.

        I run 6-7 ranges per year. ½ of all ranges are at night as ½ of our department works at night (days & graves 7-7 with an over lap guy from 2-2). Our policy states that all ranges are qualification ranges regardless if they are accuracy based or combat. Our general qualification is shot about every other range session day or night.

        It goes like this with 100% in the Coke bottle to qual:
        5 yard line. On command move laterally, fire 5 rounds, move laterally the other direction as you conduct a reload (partial mag goes on the ground), fire 5 rounds. Time limit of 10 seconds.
        10 yard line. Same but time limit is now 15 seconds.
        15 yard line. Same but time limit is now 20 seconds.

        For night ranges we double the time limits and force the use of a hand held light.

        Rifle – Starts with one accuracy type range then moves into combat. Start with 5 rounds standing, 5 kneeling, 5 sitting, 5 prone at 50 yards on a reduced size target (limited range facility). Come to standing, reload and start moving. On command fire 2 rounds. Once you cross the 25 yard line no stopping ,constant movement forward. 80% to qual. Most guys run out of ammo and have to transition at about the 10.

        A variation on this is from the 25 to 50 (depends on target size) start in a standing position. On command fire 5 rounds, drop to kneeling and fire 5 rounds, reload, drop to prone, fire 5 rounds. Must be completed in 30 seconds with 80% to qual. As your guys get better you move them further back or make the target smaller. 30 seconds sounds like a lot of time but this drill will get your heart rate up. Make them wear gas masks to make it even more fun.

        We put our guys on the shot clock all the time. One of our standard drills is from the 7 yard line they must be able to draw and fire one round and hit center mass in under 2 seconds three times in a row. Then they must be able to fire 2 rounds in under three. When I started this only 3 of them could do this consistently (all my guys are laterals with 5-15 years in the game). Now all of them are in the 1.60 to 1.70 range and a few of them are in the 1.20 range using Safariland 6280 holsters.

        We do a lot of training from and around the vehicle and with long guns they get hammered with transitions.

        As you can tell from our equipment list we are heavy into night fighting. This is due in large part to the geographical location and make up of our facility and all the underground areas we are responsible for.

        I hope this is what you were looking for.

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        • #5
          Perfect thank you.
          The officer doesn't carry his sword in vain, he's a minister of God to carry out justice. Romans 13

          Comment


          • #6
            We are an agency of just over 350 sworn. When hired, regardless of whether you are a rookie or a lateral hire, everyone goes through 40 hours of firearms training to include moving and shooting, shooting out of vehicles, target identification shooting, a combat shooting course, steel headplates on a Rogers Range, as well as Reality Based Training through scenarios using NLTA's.

            We qualify twice a year, however qualifications are something that really should be done away with. What do they measure other than the ability to use proper stance, grip, trigger pull, and sight alignment? Where is the "measurement" of use of force decision making? This is why we are heavy into RBT training as it will be some time before FDLE sees the light and moves away from basic qualifications (must pass at an 80%).

            Our department deploys rifles, shotguns, and sages. Everyone has to qualify twice a year. Some squads, like mine who are a training squad, are able to do more training. We commit to in-service training every year for everyone in include qualifiying and various shooting drills and skill builders.

            RBT is the wave of the feature as departments continue to pinch pennies. A well run and effective RBT program can cut down the number of "qualifications" a department has to do where more time can be spent on what is really the most important, which is use of force decision making.

            Nothing replaces live fire exercises, however, due to safety considerations, it is not as realistic as it NEEDS to be, hence the requirement to incorporate a RBT program. I would encourage you to check out Ken Murray's (co-founder of simunition) RBT Instructor course http://www.armiger.net/ . He runs a top notch training program and is world recognized expert in RBT.

            Hope this helps.
            "The wicked flee when no man pursueth, But the righteous are bold as a lion."

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            • #7
              Thanks for the reply. However your abbreviations are Americanisms and i have no idea what they are, RBT for instance, if you could clarify please.

              I suppose i should take this opportunity to describe my organization to avoid future confusion.

              11,000 sworn officers, 9,000 of which are operational and required to pass a 2 day course biannually which i deliver.

              The firearms component includes standard target shooting to a grade of 100%, no less. And a tactical component including live fire building clearance to the instructors satisfaction.

              I am a member of a 28 man dedicated training unit who do nothing but tactics training, including firearms, DTs and professional standards as well as all the other safety based training.

              We have a purpose built training venue with all the mod cons including a fully functional training "town", 2 indoor ranges, one laned and the other tactical live fire for live fire entry training etc.

              The "town" is fully enclosed and designed with simunition in mind and we've been using FX rounds for years.

              Other specialists units train there also, bomb squad etc.

              I hope to have instructors from other countries swap for a short period with one or 2 of my staff in order to validate each others training programs and of course to steal the good bits of each others courses!
              Last edited by Modzilla; 12-24-2006, 03:31 AM.
              The officer doesn't carry his sword in vain, he's a minister of God to carry out justice. Romans 13

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TallyPD302

                We qualify twice a year, however qualifications are something that really should be done away with. What do they measure other than the ability to use proper stance, grip, trigger pull, and sight alignment? Where is the "measurement" of use of force decision making?
                Have to disagree with you on this one.

                Revisiting fundamentals such as these are imperative for f/a training if biannual training is all your members do.

                Once you have covered these in your course you should move onto target i.d. drills in your tactical component.

                Altohough one thing i teach my people is that in a gunfight there should be no proper stance, you should be moving. However i do recognise the importance of reintroducing base skills prior to serious live fire tactical drills when they only do these things twice a year.
                The officer doesn't carry his sword in vain, he's a minister of God to carry out justice. Romans 13

                Comment


                • #9
                  Qualification should never be done away with as it is a basis for proficiency. It should not by any means be the only thing used in a firearms qualification.

                  You could do all the reality based training you want and not be able to hit the broad side of a barn. Of course, shooting a passing percentage on a qual course doesn't mean you can shoot and chew bubble gum at the same time either.

                  A sound firearms instructor course will combine a lot of different elements. There are some depts that give a few hours of classroom, shoot a qual course and say see you next year.

                  I run a three day course which inlcudes classroom and range time. The officers are qualified in handgun (on and off duty weapons), shotgun and rifle. I also do a tactical/stress course with all the above and dim/night fire.
                  Steve

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                  • #10
                    RBT stands for Reality Based Training.

                    As far as qualifications go, I should have been more specific to avoid confusion as it was late when typed my reply. A qualifications course that simply measures holes punched in paper (which is what most state's standards consist of) that only consists of measuring the basic fundamentals of marksmenship no longer serves a purpose as a "qualification" course.

                    The best SME's (subject matter experts) on use of force agree on this one subject.

                    Should marksmenship training be taught....absolutely. Should it serve as the primary basis for qualification, absolutely not. A well designed qualification course encompasses not only marksmenship skills, but also decision making skills, moving and shooting, and target identification.

                    We also train and qualify on backup weapons, shotguns, rifles, and sages.

                    Our department's training program is known throughout the country as being a top notch program. We "qualify" twice a year, but we also hold in-service training each year that consists of tactical based shooting and decision making drills. In addition to firearms in-service training, we also conduct mandatory in-service EVOC (vehicle operations) and defensive tactics training (that is based on an analysis of recent cases of use of force situations involving our officers).

                    We also have open range dates that allow any sworn member to go to the range and shoot with an instructor.
                    "The wicked flee when no man pursueth, But the righteous are bold as a lion."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Tally, you've given me and idea.......
                      The officer doesn't carry his sword in vain, he's a minister of God to carry out justice. Romans 13

                      Comment

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