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  • ASP Baton placement....

    One of our older officers said that a few years ago he went to an ASP instructor school and they instructed them to have officers put the baton behind the gun. Anyone know if they are still preaching this??? We are required to wear them like that and all of us HATE it.
    Why are there so many babies on O.com? Creole, you and your buddy JPSO Recruit help me out on this one....

    * "Preach always, if necessary, use words!" St Francis of Assisi

    * Luke Chapter 6, Verses 27-36

  • #2
    Behind your gun? That would be a bit awkward to take out and extend.

    We wear them wherever we want to! I have mine on my left side. (right handed) I also have the baton ring holder just in case I have to grab my wooden baton. (Riot duty or being able to put it away to transition to bigger and better things!)

    Placement shouldn't be an issue. It should be where you are comfortable and where you have trained to access it.

    Kind of like mag pouches.....most wear it horizontal. Due to the amount of equip. on my duty belt..I have to have it vertical. BUT I am comfortable with that position.
    This profession is not for people looking for positive reinforcement from the public. Very often it can be a thankless job and you can't desire accolades, because those are not usually forthcoming. Just do your job to the best of your ability and live with the decisions you've made.

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    • #3
      I took the Instructor course three years ago and the Instructor Trainer actually carries cross draw from his reaction side while on duty. If you have access to the training posters, they show the asp placed on the reaction side (opposite side of the firearm).

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      • #4
        If you read the book that comes with a baton you will notice that it too states to carry behind your gun.
        "If it's predictable, it's preventable"

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        • #5
          Ok, taken directly from the ASP Instructor Certification Course Syllabus:

          5.01 Weapon Side - The dominant side of the officer's body. The side where the firearm is commonly worn.

          5.02 Reaction Side - The side of the officer's body that is bladed closest to the subject. The baton is commonly worn on the reaction side.

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          • #6
            Appreciate the responses guys, maybe I can "open the eyes" of the older, wiser vets in charge of this kind of thing. LOL.
            Why are there so many babies on O.com? Creole, you and your buddy JPSO Recruit help me out on this one....

            * "Preach always, if necessary, use words!" St Francis of Assisi

            * Luke Chapter 6, Verses 27-36

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, I carry mine behind the gun, but it's not because of anything related to ASP training. I carry all my normal duty weapons on my strong side for defensive purposes. ASP is in the slightly more ackward position behind the gun because, compaired to OC, it's the one I use less. Therefore, OC goes in front and ASP goes behind.
              "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
              -Friedrich Nietzsche

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              • #8
                We wear them wherever we want to also, but mine is behind my gun. The only thing bad I have heard so far is a female officer from Missouri carried hers behind her gun and she couldn't get her gun out of her holster. From what I heard from another officer is when she got to condition red, she had a level two holster and couldn't get her weapon in far enough to push the batton. From what the other said her ASP got in the way and since she couldn't get her weapon out she panicked. I guess the guy shooting at her noticed this and charged her cruiser and the only thing she could do was yell for help on the radio. From what he said it didn't end well for her. Not sure how long ago this happen, so someone else may know more to it then I do, but I heard about it from a Kansas City Kansas Officer a few months ago. Something I have done to try to help keep space is put a keeper on either side of weapon to hold it in place.
                Some people were just dropped on their heads as children more than the rest of us!

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                • #9
                  In my book nothing, absolutely nothing, should be behind your gun. Everything else should be from over the right rear pocket (in the case of a right-hander) then go left towards the front. Nothing should be on the gun side, but your gun. Get used to drawing out everything else...mags, OC spray, ASP or other impact weapon, keys, flashlight or radio with your non-gun hand.

                  Many times, I've seen OC spray, ASP, or handcuff cases get too close to the holster, this is really dangerous when it's a triple retention-type holster. It's courting disaster, in my opinion.
                  Last edited by Kieth M.; 12-01-2006, 07:54 PM.
                  "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

                  Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

                  Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

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                  • #10
                    i dont know why they would teach you this. i never teach this to any one i teach weather they be in the academy or in-service training. if fact we teach the reverse. that your gear needs to be arrainged as to what is best for you so i dont know why they would teach this or much less require you to wear you gear a certain way.

                    and yes if you wear a double or triple threat holster you had BETTER have a keeper inbetween it and anything behind it. unfortunantly the officer Nebraska Dep mentioned did not make becasue she was unable to unsnap the second snap on her triple threat holster.

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                    • #11
                      I carry mine behind my sidearm.

                      Though we can carry them wherever we want, my thought process was twofold; if I am reaching for my ASP, the situation has most likely already escalated to a physical confrontation and I may need to transition to my weapon. If I am already reaching for that area of my patrol belt, I can quickly change the tool of choice.

                      Second, I carry the ASP and my cuff keys both in the area of my sidearm because all three represent the greatest advantage to a combative subject if they were to gain control of them. If they get "grabby" for anything in that area of my belt I will assume their ultimate intent is to disarm me and can articulate an appropriate response.
                      NJ Police Officer and Owner of:
                      On The Job Gear
                      Products for Police and Military

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                      • #12
                        In my opinion....

                        I did the ASP course in 95 and they taught behind the gun then so that's the way i did it.

                        Changed depts in 99, they taught to carry on your defensive side. (Which i dislike)

                        Carriage on the defensive side means taking it out with your defensive hand and passing to your weapon hand, which takes time, has more movements and can be tricky under stress. (depending on type of scabbard used) Or cross drawing, which isn’t so bad.

                        I still carry mine behind the gun, and instruct others to do so.

                        Extensive research has been carried out as to the most effective method for carriage and use by my dept and I, paying particular attention to the time it takes to have the baton extended ready for use.

                        I teach to carry behind gun, use weapon hand to retrieve and extend while using defensive hand to create distance or defend oneself.

                        It has proved effective.

                        However, where the use of force is appropriate I still suggest the use of whichever gas your dept issues, batons are not the best form of defense for a whole range of reasons.
                        The officer doesn't carry his sword in vain, he's a minister of God to carry out justice. Romans 13

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                        • #13
                          I have carried mine on the weapon side behind the weapon for as long as we have had them. I have NEVER had an issue with the placement. I have no problem drawing the baton or firearm.

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                          • #14
                            I too carry my ASP behind my handgun (with a belt keeper between the two). I am also a reactive weapons instructor which covers ASP, Riot Baton, PR-24 or anything else that can be used in a similar manner like a flashlight. I have always been taught to carry my gear where I can access it quickly in almost any position as well as defend from grabs. I don't agree with making officers carry their gear in one certain way because of different body types. If you can't get to it it does you no good to have it to begin with so put your gear where you can get it.

                            MODZILLA---have you heard of any problems drawing a baton from behind the holster while backing up or creating space between you and a suspect? I have been told that it is more difficult but have not had any problems myself.
                            stamus contra malum

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                            • #15
                              Negative, no incidents, if anything it should be more simple to create distance due to freeing up your defensive hand, stepping back while drawing asp keeping defensive hand up.
                              The officer doesn't carry his sword in vain, he's a minister of God to carry out justice. Romans 13

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