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    What are some opinions on the most applicable martial art to study for law enforcement. I currently am taking classes in Okinawan Shorin-Kenpo...

  • #2
    Originally posted by JsHarmon7
    What are some opinions on the most applicable martial art to study for law enforcement. I currently am taking classes in Okinawan Shorin-Kenpo...
    For me, I found that anything involving grappling was highly desirable. I studied Taekwondo for about 20 years...but found my department frowned upon me striking people in the manner I was taught...just looks rough to the public. Also found that, as a cop I need and want to "put hand on them" to make the arrest. When an arrest goes bad, hand to hand anyway, it goes up against a car of to the ground. Judo, Jujitsu any of the grappling arts are great.
    "Anyone is capable of anything"

    "I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything I thought it could be".

    -Peter Gibbons
    Office Space

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    • #3
      Rapax is 110% correct. As a LEO there are other considerations besides what is the "most efficient" form of self defense, as silly as that sounds. If it were me & I had to do it all over again, I'd look seriously at Aikido or Jiu-jitsu. LE administrators really frown onsimply striking a suspect so you have to protect yourself from them as well as the bad guy.

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      • #4
        I would look for wrestling clubs in your area that work on submission wrestling in particular. You will own the ground.

        Before you get to the ground, you need a solid stand-up gamut though. As others have said, jiujitsu (small-circle specifically if you can find someone teaching it) is a good means to an end.
        Last edited by Raptor5191; 09-25-2006, 04:20 PM.
        Send me.

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        • #5
          I have actually given serious thought to getting back in to some sort of martial arts. When I was younger I took tae kwon do for about 8 years and wrestled for 7yrs. I am kinda thinking of taking jujitsu. I feel any type of training is a good thing and I want to make sure I win the fight.
          That ol' thin line will always be mine.

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          • #6
            grappling and submission wrestling are great, but if you get a chance find something that also involve some stress inoculation drills, conditioning, and that addresses use of force policies. I know Krav Maga does that, so do some other "reality based" self-defense systems. Don't get hooked on the techniques but rather on the principles. Do you know what the department you are looking into teaches their recruits? See if you can get a head start on the same system.
            The only problem I found with BJJ is that if you are wearing a duty belt, vest, etc. grappling becomes a pain in the behind. Also, always keep in mind that your opponent may have a weapon or a friend, in which cases being on the ground is not ideal. But I do agree with the points raised above regarding striking and LE. Legal use of force is a big issue to consider.
            "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell

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            • #7
              I have done submission fighting for years and believe strongly about that style. I also put out a video on easy moves for Officers to use. (KibunInc,com). Most all training in fighting is better then nothing at all. Good luck.
              Budda sat in front of a wall and when he stood up he was enlightened. I sat in front of a wall and when I stood up the wall was enlightened.


              We forge our skills in the fire of our will.

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              • #8
                I am biased on Judo, it's good points are you can still fight stand up with throws. Throwing someone is way more effective than a punch, it is difficult to break fall on concrete. Plus it looks more user friendly to the public if you throw someone whilst they have hold of you rather than punch them full in the face.

                The up side is you still learn how to fight with them once they hit the ground.

                Just be aware of the duty belt and that lots of the techniques are for sports, think of ways to adapt them to law enforcement use. Also chokes and strangles are probably banned by department policy unless in a fight for your life.

                As the above poster said though, any training is better than none. If only for your own confidence.

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                • #9
                  Check out Krav Maga. It is the fighting style that most standard police holds are based on. There is lots of special training for LEOs too!
                  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

                  Douglas Adams

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                  • #10
                    Akido is what is used in most training for leos and such since it involves self-defense and that sort. It is very useful as it doesn't involve strenth, but rather other things, so it's very applicable in that sense. You will probably learn that type stuff at the academy. I am currently involved in muay thai kickboxing. Although it's not directly helpful in most leo situations, it can help with confidence in your ability to fight and also to take some hits. Plus if you get in an all out brawl, it might be useful. Really anything will help you somewhat, I mainly take muay thai cause I like it and it's fun, plus I'm going to start competing, got my first fight coming up. Good luck!

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                    • #11
                      Good luck on the upcomming fight. I have trained in marital arts most of my life (18 years Thai-boxing and 9 years Jiu-Jitsu). I find Akido has some good holds but wrist locks are hard to apply if you do not train on them alot. I found that Krav Magaw is good when they can apply their combos but it lacks what to do when somneone counters them.

                      MMA fighting is here to stay. Fighters along with criminals are crosstraining and so should we. We get caught up in the liablity issue and trying to handcuff someone to the point that we under train for the big fight when the suspect is not trying to get away but wants to fight.

                      Check out the website www.KibunInc.com

                      By the way Jrhodes let me know how you did on your fight.
                      Budda sat in front of a wall and when he stood up he was enlightened. I sat in front of a wall and when I stood up the wall was enlightened.


                      We forge our skills in the fire of our will.

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                      • #12
                        Aikido when practiced and used properly keeps you from having to roll around in the ground with your subject. Of course sometimes there’s no way to avoid wrestling someone to the ground. Yet if your main focus revolves around submission like Brazilian Jujitsu then obviously that’s the way the fight is going to go. I practice Chinese Kempo when I was fifteen but as a cop applying what I learned; will get me a sure front page in the news for police brutality.

                        Korean Hapkido in the other hand uses a more militarized form of Aikido that is geared towards leo’s. The Secret Service and the US Dept of State trains their agents on a form of Hapkido that’s very effective. The only draw back about soft-hand martial arts is that it requires a lot practice with a partner in order to be efficient. I guess this is also true for any martial arts the involves grappling and ground fighting. The other problem is that acquiring your subject’s hands or arms in the streets; it is easier said than done. At any rate applying the same kinetic force of your subject against him or her it is easier to explain in court than bashing someone’s face with your fist.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by User Name
                          Check out Krav Maga. It is the fighting style that most standard police holds are based on. There is lots of special training for LEOs too!
                          Akido is what is used in most training for leos and such since it involves self-defense and that sort. It is very useful as it doesn't involve strenth, but rather other things, so it's very applicable in that sense.


                          Chin Na is a system of joint locks and controls developed by the shaolin monks 1000's of years ago. "Fen Gin" is dividing the muscle/tendon, "Tsuoh Guu" is misplacing the bone, Bih Chi is sealing the breath, Duann Mie sealing or blocking the vein/artery, and Tien Hsueh cavity press or Dim Mak meridian press. These techinques are not just common in shaolin kung fu, but when the Monks left the temple to adventure out on there own they developed there own styles and own ways to add chin na into there fighting styles.

                          Japanese and Korean jujitsu and Aikido are based on the same principles as chin na. Since these countries were significantly influenced by chinese culture, it seems probable that chinese chin na also influenced their indigenous martial arts. Because of their practicality, chin na techniques have been trained right along with other fighting techniques since the beginning of chinese martial arts many thousands of years ago. Although no system has sprung up which practices only chin na, almost every martial style has chin na mixed in with its other techniques. Even Japan, Korea, and other oriental countries which have been significantly affected by chinese culture, the indigenous martial art styles have chin na techniques mixed in to a greater or lesser degree. This statement is taken form Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming He is a expert in Chin Na and Many chinese martial arts. The reason I posted this is because of the similar aspects of most martial arts. Something always looks like something else. Krav Maga, and Aikido Both have similar holds because its based on the concept of chin na. The delivery system may differ a bit, but the concept and knowledge comes from one origin.

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                          • #14
                            sorry for the old thread bump, just saw it

                            I train MMA, and our brazilian jiu-jitsu class is comprised majorily of cops in the county...the instructor teaches the ground fighting at the academy

                            personally, although in alot of situations BJJ is inapplicable for the most part(any group situation where you on the ground = head stomps...)...if it's you and a perp fighting, all alone in a rural area with no backup near, it can be extremely useful, especially if he sucked punches you or tackles you without warning.

                            judo is also useful, as uses alot of countering and not allowing them to get to you per se. Alot of it is very applicable to close-quarters interactions, especially in a group setting where you do not wanna go to the ground with them

                            and the basic fall back, muay thai or kickboxing is always nice to be able to strike when it comes to that

                            there are others, but these are what I've trained...sambo would be great, it's the russian's system of unarmed self defense...krav maga is what the isreali's use...


                            only things that won't have much carry over are things like taekwando(traditional american kinds) and other very rigidly structured arts...they are more competition and belt arts.


                            aikido is for the most part looked down upon from the MMA community as a less useful form of judo or sambo....better than nothing, but IMHO judo is a better choice

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                            • #15
                              [QUOTE=FLPD698]Aikido when practiced and used properly keeps you from having to roll around in the ground with your subject. Of course sometimes there’s no way to avoid wrestling someone to the ground.

                              This is the whole idea when it comes to taking someone down. I see alot of people on here say take some kind of grappling and wrestling art. If I was a bg intent on getting into with a LEO I wouldn't be worrying about trying to get them into a submit hold or pinning them but I would be going after the gun, asp, spray whatever. I would also like to ask has anyone taken the classes with a full duty belt on and have someone try and get your equipment out as a bg would. Also if all you do is wrestling and grappling what happens when you have more than one perp you have to deal with. The whole idea is to NOT let somebody get that close and grappling will not let you do that. The other problem is that most do not practice enough, or long enough to get to that level, hence thats why most end up on the ground.

                              But I will say some kind of training is better than nothing.

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