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  • americanoutdrsm
    replied
    Originally posted by JsHarmon7 View Post
    What are some opinions on the most applicable martial art to study for law enforcement. I currently am taking classes in Okinawan Shorin-Kenpo...
    I took Shorin-Ryu, while I was in Okinawa, I learned a lot of cool stuff but a most of that I can't use on duty. It's way too aggressive, yeah you could make the argument they assualted me first, I just ended the fight quickly and made the apprehension. Trust me been there done that its a huge pain in the butt you have to be read your rights and make a statement after shift when you just want to go home. There are a lot of good things that you can use just keep in mind what you consider excessive force is probably not the same definition that will be used when they monday morning quarterback what went on. By no means think that if the guy has you outclassed that you can't end the fight its always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I would say learn a lot more trapping, wrestling, and grappling with it will help you in the long run. It won't end the fight immediately but it will save your butt administratively. Off duty its your call, meet force with force.

    Leave a comment:


  • CUFFS137
    replied
    Now that is some funny ****! It made me laugh (and pee a little).

    Leave a comment:


  • spiff2022
    replied
    tkd as a fighting system
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=_KqUHQzyHFs

    aikido combat
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=R8wNjCScMUw

    karate demo
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=24SKbTD1Q...elated&search=

    if you want to learn to fight, watch this training video
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=psnUAkUgS...elated&search=

    just to be fair, heres mma
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=C3DsY6bCx...elated&search=

    did i miss anybody? i'm waiting for the hate mail.

    Leave a comment:


  • cblguy29
    replied
    The most versitle martial art.....

    me personally I enjoyed Jeet Kune Do, it has a good combination of all forms of martial arts as well as grappling.

    Leave a comment:


  • spiff2022
    replied
    Originally posted by CUFFS137 View Post
    Philippino martial arts are cool, and are great for knife fighting. They are not however ideal for cops. The hand fighting techniques are mostly striking/ trapping oriented. The grappling (dumog) is no more or less effective than the more widely available grappling styles. The stick fighting techniques would get you in trouble of applied to the police baton. The head is the main target in stick fighting, but off limits in most police applications. stick fighting generally involves two subjects fighting w/sticks. In police work if someone wants to fight you with a stick you escalate to the threat/use of deadly force. The same goes with knives. Cops rarely, if ever use knives as a weapon. While the hand v. knife techniques in kali/ escrima/ arnis work well when practiced, If threatened with a edged weapon, the correct response is with a gun. Most cops assaulted with a knife, never saw the knife. In many cases they were unaware that they were stabbed until well after the assault. These arts would be fine to practice, but the best investment of $$$ and time is the style that you apply most frequently, and in the largest variety of situations. IMHO these are the grappling styles.
    I talked to the Philippine martial arts guy where I train Muay Thai, who is also a cop, and he is of the idea that a lot of people don’t see the whole picture of striking. You don’t HAVE to strike for the head, there are no bad strikes, as long as there legal. You may notice even the tibia (shin bone) is in the green zone, and even a kick boxer with hardened shins will feel a baton to the shins. I wasn’t saying that Philippine MA is the be all end all system, but its great for stick work.

    Another great thing is if you choose to use the empty hand strikes, or even the knife technique, its all the same as the stick stuff. Personally I don’t train in it, but I’m going to take a few classes just to bring my stick work up.


    oh ya, this isn’t meant as a dig on you cuffs, its just another take on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • CUFFS137
    replied
    Philippino martial arts are cool, and are great for knife fighting. They are not however ideal for cops. The hand fighting techniques are mostly striking/ trapping oriented. The grappling (dumog) is no more or less effective than the more widely available grappling styles. The stick fighting techniques would get you in trouble of applied to the police baton. The head is the main target in stick fighting, but off limits in most police applications. stick fighting generally involves two subjects fighting w/sticks. In police work if someone wants to fight you with a stick you escalate to the threat/use of deadly force. The same goes with knives. Cops rarely, if ever use knives as a weapon. While the hand v. knife techniques in kali/ escrima/ arnis work well when practiced, If threatened with a edged weapon, the correct response is with a gun. Most cops assaulted with a knife, never saw the knife. In many cases they were unaware that they were stabbed until well after the assault. These arts would be fine to practice, but the best investment of $$$ and time is the style that you apply most frequently, and in the largest variety of situations. IMHO these are the grappling styles.

    Leave a comment:


  • spiff2022
    replied
    I don’t think I’ve seen anybody mention the Philippine martial arts. They are known for their escrema sticks (spelling?) witch directly correlates to baton work. I have to agree with everybody saying how effective grappling is just for the fact that nobody actually knows your really hurting the guy, it looks like your just holding him. I am doing Muay Thai right now, but that is more to get in shape and build confidence to fight than anything else, however I feel striking has its place.

    People keep mentioning aikido, witch is a great martial art, but the learning curve is just so long. I used to take a class right after the senior aikido class, and I asked one of their black belts (black dress, whatever) about it and he told me that to use it effectively in a fight, it will take about 10 years of training.

    The one thing I’ve noticed when training bjj, is that A LOT of technique puts your weapon in a bad spot, like closed guard. As long as you, every so often, train with that in mind, its my favorite.

    Leave a comment:


  • exComptonCop
    replied
    Originally posted by Gene L View Post
    Brazilian ju-jitsu seems to be big with the grapping crowd. And every fight I've been in went to the ground, or floor, or whatever.

    Me, I'm gonna concentrate on my TASER.
    A taser will definitely beat a "grapper" any day of the week

    Leave a comment:


  • Gene L
    replied
    Brazilian ju-jitsu seems to be big with the grapping crowd. And every fight I've been in went to the ground, or floor, or whatever.

    Me, I'm gonna concentrate on my TASER.

    Leave a comment:


  • CUFFS137
    replied
    Most any point I would make has been covered. There is no room in police work for 'defensive tactics'. Police officers are not defensive...An arrest, taking physical control of another person, is OFFENSIVE. If I am assaulted, I have a duty to not only win, but then to effect an arrest on the assaulter. It has been my experience that all combative arrests take place in the grappling range, and usually on the ground. You may very well be attacked by a subject throwing hay makers at you, but you will eventually have to arrest him/her. You could trade punches and kicks, but a one punch knock out is a TRULY rare thing. Most of you probably know that the longer you are in striking range, the greater your chances are of catching a lucky shot. Striking for police purposes is low percentage at best. If you know that you will have to close with a combative resister eventually, why not just do it sooner rather than later, and minimize your chances of taking shots. Stay out of range until you are ready to grapple. With this philosophy in mind officers should train in any styles that have an emphasis on winning in the clinch range. Most of the styles I would recomend (judo, BJJ, wrestling, sambo Thai boxing) have been mentioned. Finding a trainer that truly emphasizes the uniqueness of police needs is a rare thing. My experience is in BJJ, although I would trade that off in a heartbeat for a handfull of reliable training partners, a matted room, and a handfull of the better physical tactics instructional dvds. I have kibun. I like it, I'd like to learn some of the ISR Matrix stuff.
    Last edited by CUFFS137; 08-10-2007, 08:53 PM. Reason: content

    Leave a comment:


  • casaundra
    replied
    i would have to say...that no matter what classes you take..the big key is NEVER give them a chance to grab you first.its like caveman days.I KNOW you aint gonna touch my steak.instinct.pure and natural and within you

    Leave a comment:


  • Nightshift va
    replied
    Street Cop defense and Offense

    Originally posted by JsHarmon7 View Post
    What are some opinions on the most applicable martial art to study for law enforcement. I currently am taking classes in Okinawan Shorin-Kenpo...
    Aikido is very important to maintain control of subjects who resist you when you have to place them into custody and that's what we train with in Va in the academy, atleast that's what we trained in for two weeks hands on fighting. However to be honest my years of playing Linebacker and Noseguard in Football from Peewee's to College has benefited me more than any Martial Art. Lifting Weights is important also to reduce injury and add strength. The number one body part you need to be strong as a street cop though is your hands and your grip specifically.

    Leave a comment:


  • milwaukeecop2
    replied
    Originally posted by WC145 View Post
    When I suggest judo or japanese jujitsu one of the reasons I do is for the throws and takedowns. I want to be able to use the ground as a weapon, I want to take my opponent down hard and immediately move to control and cuff. I don't want to go down with them and fight on the ground if I can help it, but if I'm in that situation I fight the same way as I do standing up - elbows, knees, etc. - until I can gain control and get them cuffed. I'm not interested in staying on the ground any longer than absolutely necessary so, as far as I'm concerned, finishing holds, pain compliance, chokes, etc, take too long and leave me too vulnerable.

    Remeber, for LEOs it's not about fighting, it's about getting control and taking them into custody as quickly as possible. IMO, the idea of "advanced" martial skills as applied to practical use is to take away what you don't need or use while refining what you do rather than continuing to build a huge arsenal of techniques that you'll never use. The man that learns and works on 10 practical moves everyday will be far more adept and effective with them than one that tries to maintain scores of techniques over the same amount of training time.

    I say training to move fast, hit hard, and keep everything as basic and simple as possible is the formula for success - ground 'em, pound 'em, cuff 'em and stuff 'em.
    If you dont learn ground, you will get in a bad situation, BJJ isnt about JUST submission holds, it is about gaining control and maintaining control. We are not talking about "pulling guard" with a resister.
    You have to train with live resisting training partners, you have to have a stand up plan, a clinch plan, and a ground game plan, that you know will work,because you have applied it resonably well against someone thats trying to make you fail.

    Leave a comment:


  • WC145
    replied
    Originally posted by milwaukeecop2 View Post
    I am a long time karateka, and have been a judo competitor for 4 and a half years, and fought in a few MMA tournaments.
    I would have to say Brazaillian Jui jitsu would be excellent for the ground, if you can afford it take it!, you NEED ground skills!
    That said, Judo's ground game, while not as refined as Brazillian jiu jitsu, is'nt too bad.
    something to consider, Sambo, Judo, Jiu jitsu, greco-roman, freestylye, it is all Wrestling, and as such, has many universal principles( i.e. level change, penatration step, use the man not the mat, ect).
    Muay thai is also excallent in the clinch, excallent low line destruction, pretty solid stricking base.
    You really need to be competent in three areas in fighting, Stand up, the clinch, and ground fighting. keep this in mind in your training, and dont neglect your other tools as well( asp, firearm, ect.)
    When I suggest judo or japanese jujitsu one of the reasons I do is for the throws and takedowns. I want to be able to use the ground as a weapon, I want to take my opponent down hard and immediately move to control and cuff. I don't want to go down with them and fight on the ground if I can help it, but if I'm in that situation I fight the same way as I do standing up - elbows, knees, etc. - until I can gain control and get them cuffed. I'm not interested in staying on the ground any longer than absolutely necessary so, as far as I'm concerned, finishing holds, pain compliance, chokes, etc, take too long and leave me too vulnerable.

    Remeber, for LEOs it's not about fighting, it's about getting control and taking them into custody as quickly as possible. IMO, the idea of "advanced" martial skills as applied to practical use is to take away what you don't need or use while refining what you do rather than continuing to build a huge arsenal of techniques that you'll never use. The man that learns and works on 10 practical moves everyday will be far more adept and effective with them than one that tries to maintain scores of techniques over the same amount of training time.

    I say training to move fast, hit hard, and keep everything as basic and simple as possible is the formula for success - ground 'em, pound 'em, cuff 'em and stuff 'em.

    Leave a comment:


  • milwaukeecop2
    replied
    I am a long time karateka, and have been a judo competitor for 4 and a half years, and fought in a few MMA tournaments.
    I would have to say Brazaillian Jui jitsu would be excellent for the ground, if you can afford it take it!, you NEED ground skills!
    That said, Judo's ground game, while not as refined as Brazillian jiu jitsu, is'nt too bad.
    something to consider, Sambo, Judo, Jiu jitsu, greco-roman, freestylye, it is all Wrestling, and as such, has many universal principles( i.e. level change, penatration step, use the man not the mat, ect).
    Muay thai is also excallent in the clinch, excallent low line destruction, pretty solid stricking base.
    You really need to be competent in three areas in fighting, Stand up, the clinch, and ground fighting. keep this in mind in your training, and dont neglect your other tools as well( asp, firearm, ect.)

    Leave a comment:

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