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  • Learning from Tragedy

    It is important that we learn from the tragedies that have befallen fellow officers. This video shows the shooting of a Texas Trooper during a "routine" traffic stop. The training in this video does not stop at the intial shooting. Pay close attention to the response of the back up units. We use this video for training purposes and allow officers to critique it.

    http://www.speforums.com/showthread.php?t=530
    "You are always just one bad decision away from unemployment, prison or death."

    "My profession dictates that I routinely confront the people that the average citizen fearfully crosses the street to avoid. Then I must endure the criticism of that citizen as he judges my actions from afar."

    www.speforums.com

  • #2
    Well, after several minutes of clearing the eyes, all I have to say is that 2nd on scene needs to find another job. As limited as the video is I have to wonder why the first deputy didn't take some other type of action? We will never know. When I watched the female deputy casually walk up to the guy with the gun I thought she was insane. 5 other l/e show up and and every body lets this guy point the rifle several times at other l/e. What the heck were they thinking. This was a justified shooting if I had ever seen one.

    I would sure hope that my back up units show on scene and the guy still has the gun and fails to drop on the first warning he is made like swiss cheese.
    10-9 ??? AWW S%$#

    Comment


    • #3
      I have tried to veiw video, but cannot by this link. I also tried the website you listed, but again I was unable to download the video. Do you have a site that I can go directly to to veiw the video. I don't have dial up---Just computer illiterate..

      Comment


      • #4
        why did the first officer allow the guy to point his rifle at him and then tell him to drop the weapon....he then kept the rifle pointed at him for a few seconds before he shot.
        fall down 4 times...get up 5.

        Comment


        • #5
          veiwing video

          Cancel the last post Spetactical....I was able to view the video... UNBELIEVABLE!!! It sends chills down my spine. I try not to second guess other officers in any situation, but WHAT THE @%$# was that all about? Just hope my backup takes care of business if I am ever in that situation. Thanks for the link.

          Comment


          • #6
            Trooper Shot in Head Over Seat-Belt Ticket
            Driver, 72, Said to Claim Law Violates His Rights
            Aug. 4, 2000

            By Richard Zitrin

            KYLE, Texas (APBnews.com) -- A 72-year-old
            man who insists he has a constitutional right
            not to wear a seat belt shot a state trooper in
            the head with a high-powered rifle after the
            officer stopped him for driving without one,
            authorities said today.

            The trooper, 28-year-old Randall W. Vetter, is
            in critical condition in an Austin hospital, state
            officials said.

            Vetter was in his patrol car writing a ticket for
            Melvin Edison Hale of Kyle about 10:30 a.m. Thursday when Hale walked
            up and shot the trooper in the head at close range, Department of Public
            Safety spokesman Mike Cox said.

            Hale then apparently used the radio in
            Vetter's patrol car to report that the trooper
            had been shot, Cox said.

            He attempted to drive away, but was
            apprehended about 100 yards away following
            a brief standoff with police.

            Second seat-belt ticket

            Hale told officers after he was arrested that
            he believes it is his constitutional right not to
            wear a seat belt, Hays County Justice of the Peace Macel Sullivan told
            APBnews.com.

            This was not the first time Hale was stopped for driving without a seat belt,
            Cox said. Another trooper issued him a ticket last Oct. 14 in almost the
            same spot in this community south of Austin, he said.

            That first ticket for driving without a seat belt apparently enraged Hale, who
            allegedly pointed a rifle at an off-duty trooper when he stopped at Hale's
            home early this year. The trooper, Trampas Gooding, only wanted to ask if
            he could hunt on the property; Hale apparently thought the trooper was
            going to serve him a warrant for not taking care of the first seat-belt ticket
            he received, according to a memo Gooding wrote and circulated to police
            locally.

            Gooding wrote that Hale said he would use deadly force on any officer
            attempting to serve such a warrant and that he would "shoot it out" with
            officers.

            Cox said he does not know if Vetter had read the memo.

            Feud over $19,000 in back taxes

            Hale, a retired crane operator and cattle rancher, also had a long-standing
            feud with Hays County officials over a delinquent property tax bill and the
            county had begun proceedings to foreclose on his property if he did not pay
            more than $19,000 he owes for 1982-93, county Tax Assessor-Collector
            Luanne Caraway said.

            Hale, a lifelong bachelor, never directly threatened Caraway, but a friend
            who lives on Hale's property, Ed Bullock, told her there was potential
            danger if the county pursued the delinquent taxes, Caraway told
            APBnews.com.

            Bullock has been paying taxes on the property since 1994, she said.

            Hale, who is being held in lieu of $1 million bond in the Hays County Jail, is
            charged with attempted capital murder of a police officer.


            This was the news article about the shooting. It says attempted murder because this story was printed prior to the officer passing away. Listen to the VERY beginning of the video. If you listen closely, you'll hear the officer make the statement, "Pulled a gun or somethin' 'ere."

            Hale used a Mini 14 .223 to shoot Trooper Vetter.
            Trooper Vetter fired at least two rounds from his .357 SIG pistol, between the open door and frame of his patrol unit.


            Texas Department of Criminal Justice
            Offender Information Detail


            SID Number: 04796351
            TDCJ Number: 01079452
            Name: HALE,MELVIN EDISON
            Race: W
            Sex: M
            Age: 78
            Maximum Sentence Date: LIFE SENTENCE
            Current Facility: POLUNSKY
            Projected Release Date: LIFE SENTENCE
            Parole Eligibility Date: 2040-08-03

            Comment


            • #7
              That is the most appauling video I've ever seen. For so many different reasons.

              I'm sure I've said it enough if you've read my posts before you know what I'm going to say, so I won't dwell on it: The trooper should not have even spoken. Target, front sight, squeeze.

              Now the next person I'm ****ed at is the 2nd officer on scene. I want to see one officer who reads these forums to tell me they wouldn't light up the armed perp standing over the officer he just shot.

              Now, being objective, I know he didn't have a chance to see everything that happened. But even if the guy standing over him wasn't the same one that shot the cop, he should have enough sense to drop a weapon if he's standing over a shot officer and he sees me coming his way. If he doesn't, may God help him.

              Lastly, they let him get in the car. What the hell? It's not bad enough he just popped a cop in the head, they want to give him a chance to go back into soceity?

              I will keep this deputy in my thoughts, and I sincerly hope he and his family make through this okay. But my concern is for the next officer who's gonna have to deal with a nutball like this. Guys... girls... please... don't do what these guys did.

              And although no one else will say it, I will. The actions of that female officer gives good ammunition to those in law enforcement who think women don't belong. Just to affirm, this is not my opinion, but this certainly isn't killing a stereotype.
              You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

              Comment


              • #8
                I can't believe I've never seen that one before. That is probably the worst thing I've ever seen. Every one on that scene, esp. the first on scene need to find a new job. The most painful part of that is hearing the "death snore" the officer is doing. I don't know if getting to him quicker would have made a difference. But you surely don't negotiate the weapon out of a suspect's hand while an officer is dying. All of them should be ashamed.
                If life gives you lemons....Go find someone who life gave vodka. {Ron White}

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by vicmackey
                  All of them should be ashamed.
                  Amen to that.
                  You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    By the way, in case anyone's wondering, the Trooper died: Memorial page.
                    You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Centurion44
                      And although no one else will say it, I will. The actions of that female officer gives good ammunition to those in law enforcement who think women don't belong. Just to affirm, this is not my opinion, but this certainly isn't killing a stereotype.

                      As a female officer, I must say that her actions were definitely NOWHERE near acceptable, but that should not serve as ammunition for those who believe females do not belong in law enforcement. I have worked with several male officers since I have been on the road who, with no doubt in my mind, would have handled the situation just as she did. Being a female has nothing to do with her actions, it simply has to do with a lack of training, safety, common sense, and brains.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hpd3710
                        As a female officer, I must say that her actions were definitely NOWHERE near acceptable, but that should not serve as ammunition for those who believe females do not belong in law enforcement. I have worked with several male officers since I have been on the road who, with no doubt in my mind, would have handled the situation just as she did. Being a female has nothing to do with her actions, it simply has to do with a lack of training, safety, common sense, and brains.
                        Again, I agree. I'm not against female officers (just to clarify), I just know some officers that will use this video to feed their bigotry.

                        The mistake in this video- the inability to shoot first- was made by the initial deputy who was, of course, a male.

                        Anyone from that agency on these forums that could tell us what happened to the responding officers? I would hope that at the very least, they got a few days off.
                        You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is a mindset issue in my opinion..the trooper who died..well he was proabbly shocked that he was getting attacked...the first arriving backup was responding to an officer down call just pulls up like anyold medical no weapon out for several minutes...I am so angry and upset by this video all of these officers need retraining at the minimum and new careers at the other end of the spectrum......
                          Happy to be here proud to serve

                          "Well it appears this lock does not accept american express."

                          Never trust fire fighters to point out a suspect.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Unfortunately, we see a lot of dash videos where officer's lose their lives. This video has struck every emotion in me. No words to explain. It's definately the only video I have seen where I didnt see anything go right. One bad move after another.
                            The first backup officer, aware an officer has been shot, pulls right up to the bastard holding a freakin rifle, gets out, no weapon out and casually walks up to the *****head??? If this officer would have done the job, the scene would have been cleared and Trooper Vetter would have had medical assistance immediately whether it be by his fellow officers or one of the rigs that was enroute/standing by.
                            The thing that sickened me the most is that the backup units knew Trooper Vetter was shot and needed medical assistance and they continued negotiating with this bastard to "put the rifle down".
                            Trooper Vetter was shot AND the bastard still had the rifle AND was scanning the backup units walking around as he pleased AND they allowed him to get back in his car and drive??? Then a backup officer blocks the car from the front so the bastard has a perfect shot on him... while another officer continues to negotiate? WTF ??
                            The killer had control of the scene the whole time.
                            The whole calvary was there and not one officer took a shot. Your brother is shot and dying and you are going to retreat, take cover and negotiate with this ****er?
                            Listening to Trooper Vetter's breaths become weaker and weaker, the amount of time wasted worrying about his killer... everything that took place is just sickening. I just don't get it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NJladyGlock21
                              Unfortunately, we see a lot of dash videos where officer's lose their lives. This video has struck every emotion in me. No words to explain. It's definately the only video I have seen where I didnt see anything go right. One bad move after another.
                              The first backup officer, aware an officer has been shot, pulls right up to the bastard holding a freakin rifle, gets out, no weapon out and casually walks up to the *****head??? If this officer would have done the job, the scene would have been cleared and Trooper Vetter would have had medical assistance immediately whether it be by his fellow officers or one of the rigs that was enroute/standing by.
                              The thing that sickened me the most is that the backup units knew Trooper Vetter was shot and needed medical assistance and they continued negotiating with this bastard to "put the rifle down".
                              Trooper Vetter was shot AND the bastard still had the rifle AND was scanning the backup units walking around as he pleased AND they allowed him to get back in his car and drive??? Then a backup officer blocks the car from the front so the bastard has a perfect shot on him... while another officer continues to negotiate? WTF ??
                              The killer had control of the scene the whole time.
                              The whole calvary was there and not one officer took a shot. Your brother is shot and dying and you are going to retreat, take cover and negotiate with this ****er?
                              Listening to Trooper Vetter's breaths become weaker and weaker, the amount of time wasted worrying about his killer... everything that took place is just sickening. I just don't get it.
                              X2.....I couldn't have said it any better. That whole video is sickening. To wach the INaction of those supposed "backup" officers makes me so mad that I can't even find the words. Totally unbelieveable and those first few officers on the scene deserve to be fired immediately. If I was on that dept. I can definately say I'd be having words and possibly fists with those idiots that just stood there while a fellow trooper was dying and the suspect was walking around holding a rifle!

                              Comment

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