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  • Veterans Affairs Police

    Is there any VA police out there that feel that the VA treats us as more security guards than as Law Enforcement. Is say this in regards to our authority, jurdiscation, and Off-duty carry (not carry) and arrest authority. I just find it unbeliable in this post 9-11 that any police agency would want to enhance there police force, not limit it as in the case of the VA.
    IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

    "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
    -----Louis Pasteur

    "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

    -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

    On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

    ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

  • #2
    HOLY COW you have opened a can of worms there. I am at the Detroit VA and nothing could be further from the truth. The weapons policy is diffrent than NY though because we dont have to deal with the strict NY law but yes we are more customer service oriented than your average police agency. I really like the idea that the VA lwayers give us that if we see a crime like rape or a Detroit officer being attacked happening across the street or even the sidewalk then we cannot become involved.

    Are you a member of the YAHOO Groups for the VA Police?
    Last edited by MP Teamleader; 10-12-2005, 04:13 PM.
    After the pin is pulled, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer your friend.

    "Shut the door I'm tryin to poop!" - Larry the Cable Guy

    (\__/)
    (O.o )
    (> < )

    Comment


    • #3
      Im what way am I further from the truth. We are not allowed to act if someone is getting attacked off property (like across the street) That is ok with you
      IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

      "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
      -----Louis Pasteur

      "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

      -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

      On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

      ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

      Comment


      • #4
        I really like the idea that the VA lwayers give us that if we see a crime like rape or a Detroit officer being attacked happening across the street or even the sidewalk then we cannot become involved. Is this a miss type and mean you do not like the fact
        IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

        "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
        -----Louis Pasteur

        "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

        -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

        On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

        ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

        Comment


        • #5
          I disagree with the "policy" of we cannot act in the event of a violent crime happening across the sidewalk (that was explained in the next sentence.), I do believe we are not viewed, treated or respected as LEO's.
          After the pin is pulled, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer your friend.

          "Shut the door I'm tryin to poop!" - Larry the Cable Guy

          (\__/)
          (O.o )
          (> < )

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree, although that would not stop me I could not live as a person if I did not do anything. Also the policies need to be changed. Are we need to be part of FPS -ICE- Homeland Security afterall we are protecting Veterans and Federal Property
            IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

            "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
            -----Louis Pasteur

            "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

            -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

            On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

            ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

            Comment


            • #7
              Do you really want to become part of DHS?

              And, I remind you both that if something happens, when you cross the Federal to State line, you become private citizens who can act as such - and stop the threat to the other person. Better to face a disciplinary review than a widow.
              N. A. Corbier
              Moderator, SecurityInfoWatch Forums
              Visiting Commando Leader

              If you work in private security, feel free to register on Officer.com's sister site for security, forums.securityinfowatch.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Same situation, different badge...

                Dont feel so bad. I was an 0083 on an Air Force base. We wrote 1408's (armed forces traffic citations) which carried no fines or anything! Different jurisdictions between you (exclusive) and them (reciprocating). If an incident went down, we had to call the sheriffs! So, to sum it up; tickets werent squat, county came on base to do LE, we couldnt even FST suspected DUI's just to name a few. It was fun while it lasted and was a great steppping stone to a bigger agency. At least operating under your jurisdiction gives you some authority.
                As far as acting off federal property...as you have probably addressed, check out the "Federal Law Enforcement Officers' Good Samaritan Act" Applies to LEO's as defined in 5 U.S.C. 8401 (17) if you havent already.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here we go with the whining and complaining again just like on yahoo.

                  First and foremost, the VA will never allow its officers to become apart of FPS nor will 94 US Marshal's deputize 2000 plus police officers to enforce Title 38 (which would be need if FPS were to take over).

                  It is not policy (in reguards to MP teamleader's comments) to act across the street. Its against the law. There is nothing in Title 38 sections 901 thru 904 which allow VA police to act outside his or her jurisdiction (hospital property) nor do you have authority to act across the street. You are not a police officer across the street. You can always leave the VA and go local or to another federal agency.

                  Last I heard Baffa implemented a policy in reguards to carrying off duty. If your chief is not following the policy, I suggest contacting VACO and your inspector and having the info documented.
                  I don't answer recruitment messages....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here we go with the whining and complaining again just like on yahoo.

                    First and foremost, the VA will never allow its officers to become apart of FPS nor will 94 US Marshal's deputize 2000 plus police officers to enforce Title 38 (which would be need if FPS were to take over).

                    It is not policy (in reguards to MP teamleader's comments) to act across the street. Its against the law. There is nothing in Title 38 sections 901 thru 904 which allow VA police to act outside his or her jurisdiction (hospital property) nor do you have authority to act across the street. You are not a police officer across the street. You can always leave the VA and go local or to another federal agency.

                    Last I heard Baffa implemented a policy in reguards to carrying off duty. If your chief is not following the policy, I suggest contacting VACO and your inspector and having the info documented.

                    I know there is nothing in 901-904 but I believe in post 9-11 that should be changed. If I act as a private citizen off property (even in uniform) And get hurt or worse die how is this classified. Does my family get my LE death benefits, I am classified as a LEO for the "wall" and being on the wall is not what I am after, I look out for society safety.

                    Also what policy did Baffa implement in regards to off duty carry.

                    The VA can aleast give concurrent Juridiscation to ALL VA's
                    __________________
                    IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

                    "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
                    -----Louis Pasteur

                    "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

                    -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

                    On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

                    ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      94 US Marshal's deputize 2000 plus police officers to enforce Title 38 (which would be need if FPS were to take over).

                      Why would the Marshals have to Deputize to enforce Titlke 38, the VA already enforces title 38. And FPS does not fall under the Marshals they are under ICE.
                      IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

                      "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
                      -----Louis Pasteur

                      "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

                      -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

                      On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

                      ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bullitt107 where are you a LEO is see you are in NY.
                        IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

                        "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
                        -----Louis Pasteur

                        "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

                        -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

                        On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

                        ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          VACOP, did you hit remedial training at LR during your 5 week tenure? What parts of my post dont you understand (and yes I was a VA cop).

                          "Why would the Marshals have to Deputize to enforce Titlke 38, the VA already enforces title 38. And FPS does not fall under the Marshals they are under ICE."

                          FPS has no jurisdiction to enforce Title 38. They can enforce title 40 on federal property that falls under title 40 (basically property under GSA control). If FPS were to somehow magical take over the VAP (much like the BS I heard at DoD) then FPS officers would have to be deputized in all the US Districts where there are VA hospitals to enforce Title 38 since they are not appointed to enforce those laws.

                          "I know there is nothing in 901-904 but I believe in post 9-11 that should be changed. "

                          Call your congressmen to have the law changed. Better be ready to work on a fight from the VA hierarchy who most likely would revert you back to 0085 series guards if the law were to change.

                          "If I act as a private citizen off property (even in uniform) And get hurt or worse die how is this classified. Does my family get my LE death benefits, I am classified as a LEO for the "wall" and being on the wall is not what I am after, I look out for society safety."

                          Thats not your job. You are a police officer assigned to patrol a Veterans hospital. You are to serve those who served. Thats it. If you die by going across the street in uniform, then you get nothing. You have no jurisdiction or authority to act, call 9-1-1 and let the locals deal with it. If you feel resrticted, find out if your local department is hiring and leave the federal system. I did. I got sick of 5 years of bs and whiners who wanted to be local cops but did not have the testicular fortitude to move because they were lazy or had background issues.

                          Baffa, last I heard from the VA cops in my FOP lodge were granted authority to carry firearms based upon credentials and Baffa drafted a policy which went to all 172 duty stations. If your chief is not implementing the policy call your local IG office, VACO or OSLE and Iam sure they will put a boot up their hiney.
                          I don't answer recruitment messages....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You know..this started out as a conversation on what VA cops thoughts were about where they worked. OrlandoFed, you seem to be spending a lot of time on the key board degrading people. I do not feel it is necessary. If I worked for a local agency I would engage in conversation about things I did'nt like at that place. I am quite sure you would not stand toe to toe with me and say the things you are typing, so please show me the same respect here in fourm.
                            After the pin is pulled, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer your friend.

                            "Shut the door I'm tryin to poop!" - Larry the Cable Guy

                            (\__/)
                            (O.o )
                            (> < )

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank You MP you took the words out of my mouth. Orlando--I want to say also, why should I or anybody have to leave an agency, because of the agencies policies. I am not the only one unhappy with the VA way. Besides I am actively looking for other agencies. If the FPS were hiring in NY (upstate) I would look to going there.
                              IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

                              "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
                              -----Louis Pasteur

                              "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

                              -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

                              On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

                              ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

                              Comment

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