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  • Firearm UOF

    Greetings all!

    So my current agency is the only one I have worked for. We’re in south Ga. I wanted to know if it’s common practice else where to consider pointing your firearm at a suspect, a use of force?

    Here if you point your weapon at someone, even if they comply with commands, we have to fill out a UOF report.

    Thanks

  • #2
    If it’s your agency policy, then it doesn’t really matter what others operate under, does it?
    Now go home and get your shine box!

    Comment


    • #3
      We do UoF as soon as our firearm, taser, or OC leaves the holster.

      Comment


      • ab04
        ab04 commented
        Editing a comment
        That’s crazy! We can go as far as arcing our taser at someone without it being a UOF.

      • Bing_Oh
        Bing_Oh commented
        Editing a comment
        Ouch! I'm guessing your guys don't unholster checking an alarm at a building...

        That would seem unnecessarilty restrictive. There are plenty of times when I've unholstered a weapon during an interaction where the person doesn't even know the weapon is out...holding the pistol or taser down behind my leg when standing as a backup officer on a potentially hostile situation, for example. There are tactical reasons for doing it that don't elevate to use of force.

      • Aidokea
        Aidokea commented
        Editing a comment
        Bingo, Bing_Oh. There are many times when I'm holding my pistol or Taser behind my leg, and the people I'm dealing with don't even know it's there. I'd hate to have to cut paper every time I do that.

    • #4
      Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
      If it’s your agency policy, then it doesn’t really matter what others operate under, does it?
      It does if I’m asking now doesn’t it?

      Comment


      • #5
        More and more agencies seem to be moving to requiring documentation if a firearm is aimed at someone. Having taught use of force policy as well as firearms, I don't really have an issue with it. I would have more of a concern with policy that required paper when the firearm (let alone Taer or OC) is drawn. Cops being cops, that will result in people not drawing when they should.

        In many cases, suspects can be effectively held at low ready without pointing the firearm at them. If you do have to gun face someone, it's a pain to put pen to paper and may flag you on a formal or informal early warning system, but it does provide documentation for what you did in an internal or a civil suit.
        John from Maryland

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by ab04 View Post

          It does if I’m asking now doesn’t it?
          Doesn't really because your concerns should really only end w/ your agency.. Unless you're looking to change agencies and want to DM those who say different than what your's does.

          My agency doesn't count it as a UOF... Just a show of force. Even to arc the X2 and soon to be Taser7s is a show of force only per our policy. If the current administration is elected for another 4 years I can see this changing to a UOF though.

          Comment


          • ab04
            ab04 commented
            Editing a comment
            There is in fact a reason for my question. Thank you for your reply.

        • #7
          These types of policies are a bad idea. It will lead to officers not wanting to go to assist at hot calls in order to avoid having do paperwork afterwards, officers not drawing when they should in order to avoid having to do paperwork afterwards, officers violating the policy by not doing paperwork when this new policy says they're supposed to, or officers doing paperwork in order to comply with this new policy instead of being on the road where they can do some good.

          The amount of paperwork that officers are saddled with these days, is just mind-boggling, compared to where we were 25-30 years ago. I feel like they should do like they do with doctors nowadays, and hire a scribe to follow each officer around and do their writing for them.

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by ab04 View Post

            It does if I’m asking now doesn’t it?
            No, because what I do in Colorado is irrelevant compared to what your boss wants.

            However, to answer your question, at my last agency (a SO) use of force was only for soft hands and higher... if you had to obtain compliance, it was a use of force.

            At my current agency drawing any weapon is a use of force...
            "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

            "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

            Comment


            • #9
              If I break leather, it’s considered a show of force. Report written.

              Comment


              • #10
                If we did actual uof report every time we drew our weapon or taser we would probably have done them daily. On the flip side our patrol has to do a form every time they attempt to stop a car and it flees and they don’t pursue. Admin thinks it creates a paper trail for civil suites from pursuits. Just part of it do the report. I didn’t like doing them but I did like getting paid.
                Where'd you learn that, Cheech? Drug school?

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by ab04 View Post

                  It does if I’m asking now doesn’t it?
                  Backsassing doesn’t make your point...does it..?
                  Now go home and get your shine box!

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    That's a common policy where you are located. Drawing your pistol isn't an use of force unless you actually point it at someone. Some agencies have the same policy for the Taser and others only require an use of force report if you actually tase someone.

                    Is your department a CALEA agency?

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      As I read the comments I think back to the infamous CHP incident in April 1970 where 4 officers were murdered...At the time the CHP had a policy that if the seal on the shotgun was broken when a round was racked into the chamber. a memo had to be written...Thus officer were reluctant to use the shotgun due to extra paperwork.
                      Retired LASD

                      Comment


                      • PeteBroccolo
                        PeteBroccolo commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I can, kind-of, see that, but it sounds as if CHP (mis)management was more concerned about optics than learning from each incident. My Force was like that for MANY decades, and we have the names on our Cenotaph to show for it, but it IS improving.

                    • #14
                      Are you in a high enough Agency management, or your Union, position that your research is even going to be considered?
                      Just going to your Chief, and saying, "Boss, all the guys on O.com think your policy sucks, and Cracked Axle PS, Dry Sump SO, and Boogie Woogie State PS don't bother with minor UofF reports, so, how 'bout it, maybe no more reports, huh?!"
                      #32936 - Royal Canadian Mounted Police - 1975-10-27 / 2010-12-29
                      Proud Dad of #54266 - RCMP - 2007-02-12 to date
                      RCMP Veterans Association - Regina Division member
                      Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada - Associate (Retired) member
                      "Smile" - no!

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        Originally posted by PeteBroccolo View Post
                        Are you in a high enough Agency management, or your Union, position that your research is even going to be considered?
                        Just going to your Chief, and saying, "Boss, all the guys on O.com think your policy sucks, and Cracked Axle PS, Dry Sump SO, and Boogie Woogie State PS don't bother with minor UofF reports, so, how 'bout it, maybe no more reports, huh?!"
                        He’s not. Just a whiner noob.
                        Now go home and get your shine box!

                        Comment

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