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  • After action finger-pointing

    Edited.....
    Last edited by Aidokea; 04-11-2019, 04:11 PM.

  • #2
    Based on your description is sounds like this kid is not cut out for police work. I would make my concerns known to a supervisor and let him address the matter. But then I would back off, keep my distance and avoid as much interaction as possible with the other officer.

    I say this because of the other officer's propensity to spin things and cover his shortcomings by accusing you of interfering. He is going to paint you as someone who is trying to artificially place yourself in a position of supervisory authority over him to which you are not entitled. He will claim that in doing so, you are denying him the ability to regulate those matters for which he is being held accountable. It may not be true, but it sounds good, will take the pressure off him for a while and make you look like a busybody who is minding everyone else's business. You need to step back, give him a wide berth and let him fall on his face on his own, while letting others see the same problems and bring their concerns to supervision independent of yours and without you prodding them to do so.
    Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

    Comment


    • #3
      It seems as though what L-1 said is 100% valid, it seems as though this guy may have a penchant for deflecting and not taking responsibility. When you asked him what he could have done differently, he will blame you and accuse you of micro managing or interfering. with his tactics. In spite of the fact that if this guy would have done it exactly as he wanted to and left you out, he'd still find a way to blame you.
      Why is he texting and engrossed in a cell phone when he should be working? There is ALWAYS something a rookie can do.
      How did he get through the academy , addressing people in a mumble voice?

      Comment


      • #4
        The kid's not gonna make it and the saddest part is he's gonna cost someone else dearly in the process.

        Mumbling, not giving good info on his understanding, cell phone, texting, hiding? WTF?
        "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

        "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

        >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

        Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

        Comment


        • #5
          You have so many red flags flapping in your face in this story that I cringe each time I read it.........
          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          And every once in a blue moon, he yells. But it always seems to be at the wrong time.
          RED FLAG #1


          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          When I talk to him, I ask if he understands, and he'll initially answer in the affirmative, but when it becomes clear that he didn't understand, he'll admit that he didn't understand.
          RED FLAG # 2

          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          I often find him hiding, and he is constantly occupied by his cell phone- either on the phone, or playing games.
          RED FLAG # 3 & 4

          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          My officer did nothing.
          Dangerous Failure # 1

          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          Several minutes after that moment of excitement was over, my officer started getting pretty amped up with the perp, yelling "What the ****..." and so on.
          Dangerous Failure #2


          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          At that point, the officer went hands-on, continuing to curse, and finally put the perp in handcuffs, if a little roughly.
          Dangerous Failure #3



          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          But still no pat down. I ended up patting the perp down myself, when it became apparent that it wasn't going to happen any other way.
          Stupid Dangerous Failure #4

          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          . I asked him about it, and he pointed the finger at me, telling me that he was "just following my lead",
          Stupid Move # 1

          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          He just kept mumbling about the same two things. He was ****ed at the perp for grabbing the gun,
          Idiotic Move #2

          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          and that he was ****ed at me for not slamming the perp
          No Comment----you covered it yourself

          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post
          but this blame-shifting thing is not making me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
          As L-1 & t150vsuptpr Stated this guy isn’t going to make it. & he will take someone down with him.......Make sure it isn't you.

          Make time NOW to talk to his FTO to see if this is new behavior or something that was noted and worked on in FT.
          Then start documentation of everything you have told us…………………..as you talk to your supervisor.

          Know what is strange………………………………he acts like a lot of the inmates I deal with ……….
          Low Key in most situations…………………..gets behind the bars and grows a set. In his case he grows a set when YOU had the situation in hand.
          THEN blames everyone else for his shortcomings.
          Last edited by Iowa #1603; 12-13-2010, 08:13 AM.
          Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

          My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

          Comment


          • #6
            He's got problems, so you've got problems. Just off FTO and he's hiding and playing video games on his phone?! There's a whole lotta problems with that kid. He needs a "come to Jesus" meeting to put him on notice. If he doesn't shape up, document him out of the dept.

            Comment


            • #7
              OK let me say this 1st because I am about to **** off some of the others on here.

              This kid clearly has some issues that need work, that said on to the ****ing off:

              I gather from your post that you are at the very least one of the senior guys on the shift and an informal leader if not an actual supervisor.

              The kid in question apparently did his field training and then was thrown into a new area with new people correct?

              What are you doing to help that transition that the kid is going through. Does he have any peers from his academy with him at this new assignment? Seems like a new kid that may be a little timid (and that does need work) was taken away from the area and people he learned with in field training and sent to something new, right at the pretty difficult stage of branching out on his own. He should be developing his ability to work on his own but he has had several other things added to the mix, new co workers, new area, probably a new operational tempo depending on how you guys compare to where he trained.

              I gotta say I can see where this kid may be confused. In the incident you described you tell us that you have dealt with this perp on may occasions. You told the kid that it was his call and he had the lead but the way I see it you showed him the opposite. You said you made the initial contact with the perp, who you've dealt with on may occasions and you advised him that you were there to supervise the kid? A seasoned perp can usually smell a rook 1/2 a mile away so is it any wonder that the guy addressed you? At this point even if the kid was trying the perp is gonna look to you for the final word each and every time.

              Now don't get me wrong, if the kid is hopeless and needs to go then get it documented and bounce his *** out of there but I can't help but wonder are you helping him along or hurting him? Talk to his FTO and get some details on what went on during field training. Is he on his own or does he have some peers to learn with? Are you going to be that influence that helps him along or helps him out the door?

              If the kid is not cut out for this work then so be it, the job is not for everyone and no hard feelings but don't stack the deck against him. Be the mentor he needs, the officer he can look up to and strive to be like. If he still doesn't measure up then adios.
              There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

              Comment


              • #8
                Talk to his FTO and find out the real story. Maybe he was just passed onto another shift because of his problems....vicarious liability on the admin.

                If the probs persist, hope theres written documentation for termination under a probationary status.

                Not everyone is cut out to be a cop and you know who they are right away.
                "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God - Matthew 5:9

                Comment


                • #9
                  excellent responses! Im all for letting him "fall on his face" if all else fails, BUT what if he falls on his face when an officer NEEDS his assistance ASAP?
                  Be extremely blunt with him. Even as a new tard fresh outta FTO, I knew to not let a bad guy walk into an enclosed area when a gun was a possibility. Sit him down with a boss and very "teacher like" point out the things he did "wrong" on the call...let him know about the HUGE safety issues and that he needs to be a bit more assertive, if not aggressive. Document the hell outta him and pray he gets his mind right and doesnt get killed...or someone else killed.

                  good luck, man! Im sorry you and he are going through this
                  Last edited by crass cop; 12-14-2010, 12:08 PM.
                  "I don't go on "I'maworthlesscumdumpster.com" and post negative **** about cum dumpsters."
                  The Tick

                  "Are you referring to the secret headquarters of a fictional crime fighter or penal complex slang for a-$$hole, anus or rectum?"
                  sanitizer

                  "and we all know you are a poser and a p*ssy.... "
                  Bearcat357 to Dinner Portion/buck8/long relief

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kknudsen View Post
                    OK let me say this 1st because I am about to **** off some of the others on here.

                    This kid clearly has some issues that need work, that said on to the ****ing off:

                    I gather from your post that you are at the very least one of the senior guys on the shift and an informal leader if not an actual supervisor.

                    The kid in question apparently did his field training and then was thrown into a new area with new people correct?

                    What are you doing to help that transition that the kid is going through. Does he have any peers from his academy with him at this new assignment? Seems like a new kid that may be a little timid (and that does need work) was taken away from the area and people he learned with in field training and sent to something new, right at the pretty difficult stage of branching out on his own. He should be developing his ability to work on his own but he has had several other things added to the mix, new co workers, new area, probably a new operational tempo depending on how you guys compare to where he trained.

                    I gotta say I can see where this kid may be confused. In the incident you described you tell us that you have dealt with this perp on may occasions. You told the kid that it was his call and he had the lead but the way I see it you showed him the opposite. You said you made the initial contact with the perp, who you've dealt with on may occasions and you advised him that you were there to supervise the kid? A seasoned perp can usually smell a rook 1/2 a mile away so is it any wonder that the guy addressed you? At this point even if the kid was trying the perp is gonna look to you for the final word each and every time.

                    Now don't get me wrong, if the kid is hopeless and needs to go then get it documented and bounce his *** out of there but I can't help but wonder are you helping him along or hurting him? Talk to his FTO and get some details on what went on during field training. Is he on his own or does he have some peers to learn with? Are you going to be that influence that helps him along or helps him out the door?

                    If the kid is not cut out for this work then so be it, the job is not for everyone and no hard feelings but don't stack the deck against him. Be the mentor he needs, the officer he can look up to and strive to be like. If he still doesn't measure up then adios.
                    Yeah, I was kinda wondering the same thing.....to the OP...are you a supervisor or just a senior guy on shift?
                    Why are there so many babies on O.com? Creole, you and your buddy JPSO Recruit help me out on this one....

                    * "Preach always, if necessary, use words!" St Francis of Assisi

                    * Luke Chapter 6, Verses 27-36

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ok the guy is messed up. Buuttt... I want to point out that you are almost equally to blame as the cover officer for letting the crook get to the gun. As a cover officer it's your job to watch for officer safety. If the bad guy moves when he shouldn't and the contact officer doesn't say anything, it's your job to step in. That's the whole point of a cover officer. The guy should never have been allowed to move freely. You did step in, but frankly, it sounds a little late if he got to the gun.

                      The good part is you obviously care about safety and what happens, and are picking up on this guy quick. Hopefully your squad has a similar attitude and can fix the guy (if possible).
                      Last edited by nobodyjr; 12-20-2010, 04:03 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am getting old, but there seems to be an expectation by this officer that someone else is to blame for his short comings. I am supportive of trying to help someone "transition" into a new area with now people, but it is up to the officer to take the initiative to seek out the more experienced officers for their help.

                        The information that he is spending too much time on his cell phone with calls and playing games while he watches the world go by is not going to cut it. HE has to take the initiative and not EXPECT someone else to hold his hand.

                        I started in LE back when most departments had no FTO program. Good or bad, you were thrown to the wolves and you either survived or didn't.

                        I know that the Gen Y and Gen X officers were raised in a different time than I was and will take that into consideration up to a point, but a lazy officer in the 1970s was a lazy officer, just with a different set of distractions. If he is not a proactive officer right out of FTO, then he most likely will never have that "fire in the belly" to seek out criminals on his own. He is a "clerk" with a gun filling out forms and hating every minute he can't be on his phone.

                        I would not have sent him home before the case was written up. I really would not care if he spent his days off writing the report, he wouldn't leave before it was finished.

                        As his supervisor, I would tell him that the use of his phone on duty for non-duty purposes would be considered dereliction of duty. He needs to get with the program or you WILL have problems with him in the future. He can blame whom ever he wants at his next job. There are too many people out there who will perform the job and do a good job without the drama to put up with him.

                        If it is a training issue then deal with it and get him some remedial training. If it is not training, then DON'T let him pass probation.
                        Ut humiliter opinor

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