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10 hour shifts - HELP

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  • 10 hour shifts - HELP

    Is anyone, ANYONE, able to point me to some data that shows the 4-10 hour shifts as a benefit to the City or PD? Our chief is opposed to them for patrol and CID because he read somewhere in a book that indicated they were basically an employee benefit and not as efficient as either 5-8s or some other alternate schedule. Maybe that ends up being true, 5-8s are better for the City. I don't know.

    I need someone to please let me know if they have any data they could fax or point me to that I could use to produce something that shows a benefit to the City in addition to us officers. I know such thinks as reduced traffic etc by one less day driving to work but he doesnt care about that.

    We are on 5-8s and Id like to make a good case at 4-10s if such a thing is possible.

    Thanks in advance,
    Det. D. Teachworth
    Lynnwood, WA PD

  • #2
    Are you talking about steady shifts, or rotating? I'm on rotating tens, and they suck!. That said I would say that anything rotating sucks compared to anything steady.
    Prior to being on tens, I was on rotating eights. I didn't much notice a difference in quality of work, or life. I remember how short the eights seemed comparitively. Prior to the eights, I was on steady twelves (straight midnights 7P-7A). Now that rocked. No sleep problems, lots of time off, and the duration of he shift never bothered me due to the steady hours.

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    • #3
      I work ten with non rotating days off. Most of the PD loves them.
      days is 7a-5p, eves is 5p-3a, and mids is 9p-7a. It works noce having two shift on from 9p-3a when eves and mids overlap. That is our busiest time of day and it seems to have helped alot. I love the three day weekends and the four day week is awesome. I don't have any financial data to forward. but the overlap of the two shifts has helped us with calls.

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      • #4
        The only benefit I am aware of to department operations is that it allows you to schedule patrol shifts to overlap during peak call load periods. However, creating that overlap effectively reduces your staffing level by 20%, because you have to give everyone an extra day off each week to make up for it. In essence, this makes it an employee benefit more than a department advantage. Similarly, CID usually works Monday through Friday. In order for them to take a third day, you would either have to close investigations for an entire business day, or have half take Mondays and half take Fridays off. (Being 50% understaffed two days a week is not a real good idea). Another alternative is to make sure third days are rotated during the week to ensure an even distribution of absences so as not to cripple the unit's staffing. This means taking your third day as a single day off in the middle of the week instead Monday or Friday, which would probably destroy CID's morale.

        You also have to remember that most Chiefs spend a lot of time crying to the city council that the department is understaffed and needs more officers. For him to support a 4/10 plan, which essentially reduces staffing levels by 20%, shoots his credibility in the foot.

        For you to bring this about, it is going to have to be a collective bargaining issue in your next contract negotiations. Remember, if 4/10 is implemented, the city is going to have to hire 20% more officers just to maintain the same staffing levels that you had before 4/10. This is going to be costly, so your membership needs to be prepared to give up something substantial in return.

        Privately your chief may support you, but politically and in order to maintain staffing levels, he will have to publicly oppose it or at least grumble loudly about it.
        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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        • #5
          Our department has had the 4/10 plan (non-rotating) for over 30 years. It was and still is a great incentive for hiring new officers and especially laterals. Increases in pay are great, but having that extra day off really makes a difference to those who work shifts. To be competitive in Southern California these days, it's almost a necessity to offer either the 4/10 or 3/12 to potential hires.
          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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          • #6
            4-10's rock. The time off is great and 10 hrs is just enough time to get into something and did I mention the time off is great.
            Apple Fritter

            Afiant further sayeth naught

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            • #7
              We used to do 4-10's, but changed to 12hr shifts...This week I work Wed & Thur 6am-6pm, fri-off-sat-off-sun-off-mon 6am-6pm , tues 6am-6pm, wed/thur off, fri-6am-6pm, sat 6am-6pm, Sun 6am-6pm..Night guys follow same but 6pm-6am...plus we have a few floater shifts....We all love it!! Every other weekend off

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              • #8
                My Dept. has been on 4 tens since the 70's. Day shift is 8-5, afternoons is 3-1 and midnites is 10 -8. Every 4 months, you can change to the shift you prefer, based on seniority. Days off are based on seniority, New people, mids, tue ,wed, thur. off. Senior, fri, sat ,sun off. When you promote up to Sgt, you have to get in line for seniority again reference days off and shift preference.That was just one of the many benefits of collective bargaining and having PBA/FOP. Everybody loves the ten hour shift and the same three days off every week. From a supervisor point of view, this system results in a lot less 'sick' calls and squads tend to stay together and work more efficently and there's less turnover in personnel.

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                • #9
                  4-10's do rock....

                  I work Sunday's through Wednesdays, 1-11 pm or C watch, A Squad. The opposite of me, they work Wednesday-Saturdays, B squad. Wednesdays are generally used for training. Since its the overlap day, we can get away with that. Lots of people bang in sick that day but even so, we can approve days off for Wednesdays, simply because we're fat.

                  I would fight it simply for the fact that your training time will be evident...Wednesday, A squad trains on whatever while B squad goes directly in service. The following week, B Squad trains, and A squad goes right out onto the road to get dayshift relived.

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                  • #10
                    We work a 4-11 shift with start times staggered to adjust staffing to call load. The city likes it because it has reduced overtime. Officers like it because we get 4 days off in a row. PM me and I can send you a copy of our schedule.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for the comments.

                      Currently in CID, we work M-F 9-5.

                      I was going to develop a mock schedule for us to basically have 2 squads of 3 detectives, each squad with 1 SGT (we currently have 2 sgts and 6 detectives). 1 squad would work Sun-Wed 7-5 while the other would work Wed-Sat 7-5 for example (or 8-6). That would give our unit coverage 7 days a week with an overlap on Wed for warrant services or training etc. Each squad would have one weekend day at their disposal to make more contacts with people who also work M-F 9-5.

                      So, with that in mind, and the above reasons for it listed out, I guess I was wondering if there was some statistical data or science behind the 4-10s that I could add into my presentation to tip the scales more in my favor. Our chief loves stats.

                      As a side note, I learned we are going to revamp our patrol schedule to attract more applicants because currently, it sucks, IMHO. It is 6 days of 8.25s then off 3. They are talking about moving to a 5-4 5-3 schedule of 9s or something.

                      I was just hoping CID could get a bone to get off the 5 and 2 8s we are on. That extra (3rd) day off is great when it happens and I loved 4-10s I worked on my previous department.

                      Thanks.
                      Last edited by TeachDJ; 04-03-2008, 02:51 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Seventy2002 View Post
                        We work a 4-11 shift with start times staggered to adjust staffing to call load. The city likes it because it has reduced overtime. Officers like it because we get 4 days off in a row. PM me and I can send you a copy of our schedule.
                        We are the same.

                        4 days on. 11 hour shifts. 4 days off.

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                        • #13
                          Our agency looked at it and found it to be "the least effective and most costly way to cover a 24 hour patrol shift.

                          WHY you ask. simple: 5 eights require 3 officers for 24 hrs. 12's require only 2,,,, but 10 require 2.something.. The only reason we did it was
                          Day work was 7-17:00 mid shift was 13-21, and midnights were 21-0700,, it worked for us because we were patrolling a beach and park and neeed double coverage during middle of the day.

                          12 hour shifts are better if you ask me...

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                          • #14
                            A very large agency where I'm from recently completed a study on how much more effecient the 10 hour shifts are than the previous 8 or 12 hour shifts. They have also just implemented those 10 hour shifts.

                            Contact Cedar Rapids, Iowa PD, they'll be able to put you in touch with the officers who spear-headed the study, as I don't want to give names out on the forum.

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                            • #15
                              We operate on a rotating 12 hour shifts.. some hate it, some like it.. I like it, as the off days are longer, and the rotations change it up a bit so the job isnt the same.
                              Never take what happens personally because of who we are and what we do.. Its a game, at which we are on the other side of the line, and the stakes are higher!

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