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  • No chase.

    My PD just went to a felony on view chase policy from a chase for anything policy.

    My question to you all is do you have a hard time writing someone a ticket for actually stopping for you like they are suppose to and yet the guy that runs gets nothing at all. Its like i am punishing you for stopping. But if you just run well today is your lucky day cause you ain't getting a ticket.

    What message is this really sending?

    It just seems wrong to me. and i also work a high crime town and everyone that runs is running because they have drugs or felony warrants. They aren't running because of the stop sing they ran.

  • #2
    I didn't like it either, but after you've seen an officer or two severely injured while chasing a misdemeanor (later verified) theft suspect, it's understandable. For known felony violators or those suspected of committing serious crimes, high speed pursuits are serious business. Experienced officers usually know this, but younger officers with less time on the street often fail to recognize the inherent dangers and get hurt or injure others. Bad guys crash too and injure innocent persons, but I've never believed we should be held responsible for those situations.
    "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

    Comment


    • #3
      ^

      I understand how chases are dangerous. But i feel that if we are just going to do nothing if you run then why are we going to punish you if you stop.

      I don't have a problem not chasing. i just have a problem writing a ticket to people who actually stop when they can just run and get nothing.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's harder to chase now days. There are more cars on the roads now. Sometimes the risks just aren't worth it. Look at those deputies in FL that were suspended for chasing a stolen car. My department has the felony policy. The best we could do is try to get a look at the driver(if possible) and see if the registered owner was the driver and file charges. It's worked for me in the past.

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        • #5
          I can care less about chasing. I just cant wait for the first law suit someone will fill for the police not doing there jobs,

          I am concerned about writing tickets to people who actually stop. Why are we punishing the people who do the right thing instead of running and getting away.

          Comment


          • #6
            I see your arguement and agree. But its not worth getting YOURSELF in any type of sling over something that "could" be a minor speeding violation.

            I can tell you one thing. When you find out later that the guy you let go just robbed, raped, or killed someone. And then the victim or their family finds out we just let them go. I am not going to be the one explaining to them that I let them go because I didnt want to risk getting sued, fired, suspended, or blasted by the media if the suspect wrecked.
            Last edited by DeputySC; 12-26-2007, 12:38 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Tmg View Post
              I can care less about chasing. I just cant wait for the first law suit someone will fill for the police not doing there jobs,

              I am concerned about writing tickets to people who actually stop. Why are we punishing the people who do the right thing instead of running and getting away.
              1) If they are really all that much "doing the rigt thing", why are you stopping them?

              2) There are other places to work. Not to be giving you a hard time, but if policy is that hard to operate under, if it's something you can't square in your mind, maybe it's time to go look elsewhere?
              "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

              "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

              >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

              Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

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              • #8
                No Chase

                I can't pass specific judgement on your agency, but I do understand your feelings. Often times, "No Pursuit" policies are the result of gutless, no-load politicians, and that includes some police executives. Recognize, that any pursuit is a potentially hazardous event. I'm retired from a state law enforcement agency, ( Alabama DPS) and we have what I consider is a pretty well thought out policy. It is the individual Trooper's decision whether or not to continue or terminate the chase. The guiding principal is whether continuing the chase would be to the greater advantage of the public (safety) or terminating the chase would be of the same value. This is essentially the Trooper's call. While a Supervisor can order the termination of a chase, should a Trooper decide to terminate the chase, the Supervisor cannot overule him/her. Certainly, the policy has other provisions, but it's pretty workable, and one I found rather easy to work with. Don't look for the perfect policy, it ain't out there. When all the smoke clears and the dust settles, you really have two options. you accept your department's current policy(like it or not), or you start looking elsewhere. Not trying to be smart with you, just sharing some thoughts. Stay safe out there, and good luck.

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                • #9
                  Its dangerous. Especially in densely populated urban areas where an out of control car becomes a 2,000 lb missile. Im all for pursuing criminals to the depths of hell, but at what cost? Some innocent civillians standing on a corner at a bus stop and get hit by this fool or the family in the minivan that gets tboned because the fool thinks he can beat the red light? A pursuit for a theft from CVS or simple assault with no visible injuries TO ME wouldnt be worth the risk of pursuing this vehicle through a densely populated area. If someone was shot/stabbed, hit and run, thats a different story.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No agency can have an absolute "no chase" policy. The agency would definitely be sued for failure to act. I believe a dept. in either N. or S. Carolina tried that and they were told by the state that if they didn't change it they would be dissolved as a PD.

                    When I was a rookie I felt the same way. I couldn't believe we would just let a guy get away. As others metioned, you get older, more experienced and see things for what they really are. I can't bear the thought of someone running from the cops for a busted tail light and blowing an intersection and killing my wife in an accident.

                    Chases should be a totality of the circumstances kind of thing. Supervisors should make the call. Should you chase a stolen car through rush hour traffic with wet roads? No. You should be allowed (IMO) to chase them at 0200 with light traffic on the roads though.

                    Officers should be well trained and MATURE enough to do the right thing and not be negligent. They also need to be RESPONSIBLE enough to cancel the chase themselves if they feel it becomes too dangerous, and that's a hard thing to do...especially for newer officers.

                    Our chase policy is pretty restrictive. Murder, rape, armed robbery, agg battery, kidnapping is all we can chase for. There's a catch-all in there also that says that if the officer feels the violator poses a signifigant risk to the public should he not be apprehended immediately the chase can go on. This can include severe DUI's, a person who maybe just did a drive by, etc.
                    Perseverate In Pugna

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      these are all great points for the chase or don't chase argument.

                      But my problem is ticketing people who stop but not doing anything to people who run? It just seems kind of wrong to punish the person doing the right thing and not doing anything to the guy who does the wrong thing.

                      Do you even think it could be a defense in court to fight the ticket? " well the guy who ran and got away while risking everyones life didnt get a ticket so why should i?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just to add my two cents

                        Pursuits are no fun. Trust me.

                        Its a terrible feeling to tell the mother of a 5 year kid that little Johnny isnt coming home because I decided to chase a shoplifting suspect through town when a suspect or myself wrecked into the family car. LE work is all about balance. In metro areas, the risk is usually just too high. Criminals that run will eventually get caught. Its just a matter of when. I truly believe that unless the crime committed endangers the general population, a chase is not necessary. There have been far to many chases where the only reason why the perp ran was a little weed or a suspended drivers license. Unless we have actual knowledge of a violent crime against a person, chases in my opinion are no good. Hope that all makes sense. Be safe guys!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tmg View Post
                          these are all great points for the chase or don't chase argument.

                          But my problem is ticketing people who stop but not doing anything to people who run? It just seems kind of wrong to punish the person doing the right thing and not doing anything to the guy who does the wrong thing.

                          Do you even think it could be a defense in court to fight the ticket? " well the guy who ran and got away while risking everyones life didnt get a ticket so why should i?"
                          Fully understand your feelings. Consider though, that you're NOT responsible for the policy your department operates under. You do the best job you can within those policies. As far as your agency's policy is concerned, I really don't think it would be too much of in issue (defense) for a violator in court.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In my 12 years, I've seen many changes for the worse as it relates to the way criminals view the police. It used to be that we could chase for anything and the criminals knew it. The criminals also knew that if they got caught, they had what was coming to them. As a result, criminals feared and respected us. Now, criminals look at us as "b itches". Is it sad that innocent people get killed as a result of police chases? Sure it is. But I think that as police departments become more "soft" as they have in the last 20 years and are sure to continue, eventually police won't even be a factor. They are always telling us what we can't do in our roll calls. It seems like the list of can'ts are becoming more than the list of cans.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I also agree with TMG's post. I posed a few examples to some citizens who were upset that police were chasing for traffic infractions. One example was: your 16 yearl old daughter is getting of work at McDonalds. While walking to her car, someone comes up from behind her and takes her car with her in it. This suspect runs a red light and is speeding. An officer witness's only the traffic infaction and the kidnapping is unreported. The officer attempts to stop the vehicle but it speeds away because the officer is prohibited from chasing. The officer goes to the registered owner's home and asks who was driving. The parents say their daughter was and should have been home hours ago. The girl is later found assaulted, raped or dead.

                              I then asked the citizens what would their reaction be if it were their daughter. They rethought their thinking on pursuits and are now for officers chasing. The thing is, there have been two incidents within the last year near here were a girl was snatched and later found dead. One made national news. Now I ask, if an officer attempted to stop any of these vehicle's, do you think the suspect would stop. I'm all for traffic enforcement like TMG is saying, but are we punishing people who stop, have s valid license and insurance and their only crime was going 10 over the limit. And to clearify, Officers may be attempting to stop a vehicle for only a traffic violation, but when the vehicle is stopped, it is found out more often than not, they ran for a more serious crime.

                              As for the officers in florida, I can't excuse them. They drove reckless and should be suspended. But if they drove the way they were supposed too, I would have no problem chasing a stolen vehicle. Because stolen vehicles are usually used to commit more serious crimes. The problem now with restrictive pursuit policies, if when someone runs and gets away, they tell everyone which department will and won't chase. And we now have kids running just because they know we can't chase. Also drug runners are being found with maps in their vehicle indicating which areas will and will not chase.

                              As far as I have seen, restrictive policies don't work. No deparment keeps a record of how many vehicle's fled when the lights go on. They only say that the number of accidents have declined since their new policy when into effect.

                              Comment

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