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Don't Taze Me, Bro!

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  • Don't Taze Me, Bro!

    How about it? Is the TAZER being abused or used too frequently - too quickly?
    The All New
    2013
    BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
    Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
    - M1Garand

    (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)




  • #2
    Just like every kid with a new toy every cop that gets a taser wants to go out and use it on someone. Once they get a few under their belt they will chill out with it. The taser is still a fairly new tool and I think that after a few years the number of incidents with it will go down.
    I'm sorry, Bruce. These boys get that syrup in 'em, they get all antsy in their pantsy.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JJS View Post
      Just like every kid with a new toy every cop that gets a taser wants to go out and use it on someone. Once they get a few under their belt they will chill out with it. The taser is still a fairly new tool and I think that after a few years the number of incidents with it will go down.
      +1!!! Couldn't agree more. It's a great tool, but restraint must be included in any training format and I'm afraid (often) it's lacking. When used unnecessarily, all this does is let our foes have ammunition to use against us. Use it when it's needed, but not just cause you want to try out the "latest flavor" in tools!
      "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JJS View Post
        Just like every kid with a new toy every cop that gets a taser wants to go out and use it on someone. Once they get a few under their belt they will chill out with it. The taser is still a fairly new tool and I think that after a few years the number of incidents with it will go down.

        Thats pretty bold statement. Not every cop is like that. I dont see it as every cop wanting to go out and taser someone. Thats reckless. I think right now its huge in the media and blown out of proportion since it is fairly new.

        Im sure the taser has been abused in the past. But so has every weapon. Its a matter of training and responsibility. Every officer is different. While its funny to look back and laugh at how the suspect fell over like a tree...its not like I go out looking to taser someone. I never had to used my firearm...I dont go out looking to shoot someone either... Just FYI...I have been carring a taser for 2 years.

        I too agree eventually the media coverage of taser "incidents" will go away. its attacked because its new and made to be all so dramatic.
        Last edited by deputyryan; 09-27-2007, 04:20 PM.

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        • #5
          I know of departments - more than a few - that urge their officers to bring out the TASER in any situation where they would otherwise be going hands-on with a suspect who was not cooperating. That means everything from a "no" response to "Please step out of the vehicle" all the way up to "If you don't stop running, I'm going to use the TASER." Even though it looks pretty awful, getting TASERed is probably a much lower-risk option than having joint locks applied with force, getting hit with a baton, or getting into a wrestling match with homeboy. I have forgotten how many suspects I have taken to the hospital before booking because I heard or felt something give way while applying a control hold (or the suspect alerted me to this event). Our SOP was that anyone struck with a baton went to the hospital before being booked, and with good reason. By the time we got to the baton level rung on the force ladder, Mr. Personality was asking for some serious thump action.

          I doubt if there are any hard numbers on this, because everyone counts these incidents as little differently, but I would bet that far fewer suspects get injured getting TASERed than are injured with other force measures. TASER makes a selling point of the lower IOD stats in agencies using the TASER, and if fewer officers are getting hurt, I'd think fewer suspects are getting hurt, too.

          I think a big problem here is that using the TASER just doesn't look "fair." It isn't necessarily brutal, but it appears un-American to be able to put Bubba on the ground without breaking a sweat in the process. Swinging a baton looks too caveman, and shooting them has its obvious downsides.

          There is also an issue that comes from people getting their "education" from television. Nobody on TV resists arrest unless they do it via knife, gun, or flight. When the detectives on Law and Order put the cuffs on somebody, even in a highly embarrassing venue (like busting the big corporate CEO during a board meeting), the bad guy shouts his indignation, but there's never a physical altercation. If the U of F incident had been in a TV show, the kid would have been shouting his protests of police abuse, but there would have been no tearing away from the cops or the need to have multiple officers step in. As I mentioned in last week's editorial, most people below the age of 25 have never been in a fight. I don't think you're going to understand what that's like without the experience.
          Tim Dees, now writing as a plain old forum member, his superpowers lost to an encounter with gold kryptonite.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Tim Dees View Post
            I know of departments - more than a few - that urge their officers to bring out the TASER in any situation where they would otherwise be going hands-on with a suspect who was not cooperating. That means everything from a "no" response to "Please step out of the vehicle" all the way up to "If you don't stop running, I'm going to use the TASER." Even though it looks pretty awful, getting TASERed is probably a much lower-risk option than having joint locks applied with force, getting hit with a baton, or getting into a wrestling match with homeboy. I have forgotten how many suspects I have taken to the hospital before booking because I heard or felt something give way while applying a control hold (or the suspect alerted me to this event). Our SOP was that anyone struck with a baton went to the hospital before being booked, and with good reason. By the time we got to the baton level rung on the force ladder, Mr. Personality was asking for some serious thump action.

            I doubt if there are any hard numbers on this, because everyone counts these incidents as little differently, but I would bet that far fewer suspects get injured getting TASERed than are injured with other force measures. TASER makes a selling point of the lower IOD stats in agencies using the TASER, and if fewer officers are getting hurt, I'd think fewer suspects are getting hurt, too.

            I think a big problem here is that using the TASER just doesn't look "fair." It isn't necessarily brutal, but it appears un-American to be able to put Bubba on the ground without breaking a sweat in the process. Swinging a baton looks too caveman, and shooting them has its obvious downsides.

            There is also an issue that comes from people getting their "education" from television. Nobody on TV resists arrest unless they do it via knife, gun, or flight. When the detectives on Law and Order put the cuffs on somebody, even in a highly embarrassing venue (like busting the big corporate CEO during a board meeting), the bad guy shouts his indignation, but there's never a physical altercation. If the U of F incident had been in a TV show, the kid would have been shouting his protests of police abuse, but there would have been no tearing away from the cops or the need to have multiple officers step in. As I mentioned in last week's editorial, most people below the age of 25 have never been in a fight. I don't think you're going to understand what that's like without the experience.
            well said

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            • #7
              The last time I used a taser was a few days ago. I got into a foot chase with a guy who refused to obey numerous orders to stop. I closed the gap when he tried running into his house. As he stepped into the threshhold I shot him with the barbs. It worked immediately and I was able to keep an eye on all the drunks as he was taking the ride. My partner jumped in and grabbed the guy taking him outside.

              In the past I would have shoved the guy to the ground and I am sure a wrestling match would have taken place. While wrestling with him it is quite possible that his drunk buddies would have jumped in on the fight.

              Instead their eyes were glued to the guy as he was taking the ride. I was easily able to keep an eye on them while my buddy took the guy outside. It happened at the blink of an eye.

              I think the taser is an awesome tool. In my opinion it is one of the best tools in recent history to make the law enforcement scene. I have observed a few cases where it should have been used but was not.

              On our use of force policy it is to be used before mace. I believe it is being used for the most part properly.

              It looks violent but it sure beats a broken arm, nose or other injuries that would result had the taser not been an option.
              Prov 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

              Comment


              • #8
                The Taser is such an effective tool that some guys are getting dependant on it. As a result, they tend to use it a bit more often then they should and continue to use it even when it proves ineffective.

                I've seen the Taser used in situations where a simple compliance hold would have gotten the situation under control. I've also seen situations where an individual is tased over and over again without compliance or control ever being achieved.

                In the end, the Taser needs to be considered just one more tool in the kit. Sure its a great, effective tool, but its only one option amongst many. In order to be an effective officer, you need to be able to use all the tools in your kit effectively and appropriately.
                Originally posted by kontemplerande
                Without Germany, you would not have won World War 2.

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                • #9
                  It seems like now the public is looking at every single Taser incident as if it were an abuse of power (no pun ).

                  Weighing the alternatives to a fist to cuffs fight to gain compliance I think most logical citizens would choose the Taser.
                  "Get this and get it straight! Crime is a sucker's road and those who travel it wind up in the gutter, the prison, or the grave. There's no other end. They never learn."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SRT936 View Post
                    The Taser is such an effective tool that some guys are getting dependant on it. As a result, they tend to use it a bit more often then they should and continue to use it even when it proves ineffective.

                    I've seen the Taser used in situations where a simple compliance hold would have gotten the situation under control. I've also seen situations where an individual is tased over and over again without compliance or control ever being achieved.

                    In the end, the Taser needs to be considered just one more tool in the kit. Sure its a great, effective tool, but its only one option amongst many. In order to be an effective officer, you need to be able to use all the tools in your kit effectively and appropriately.
                    On the same note, it's also a relatively new tool. The best and mose effective application of the Taser is still somewhat of a gray area, especially within departments that don't have much experience with them.

                    Also, I strongly believe that there aren't as many Taser incidents as the media portrays. It's a pretty dramatic tool and one that's under the spotlight right now, so alot of Taser uses are making headlines. But, I doubt that you'd find an increase in use of force since the Taser came out. I'm betting that ratio is even less dramatic if you consider the Taser being used in place of OC.
                    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
                    -Friedrich Nietzsche

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                    • #11
                      Just remember, perception is truth in this world, unfortunately. It is true that both officer and idiot injuries go way down when the TAZER is used, but the media is distorting this in favor of the dramatic few.

                      Reminds me of the old bar arm control hold. The media called it a choke hold when it was not. The result? The hold was effectively ended, and I had used it many times with complete success.

                      I never even killed anyone, as some claim the hold did.
                      The All New
                      2013
                      BBQ and Goldfish Pond Club
                      Sully - IAM Rand - JasperST - L1 - The Tick - EmmaPeel - Columbus - LA Dep - SgtSlaughter - OneAdam12 - Retired96 - Iowa #1603
                      - M1Garand

                      (any BBQ and Goldfish Pond member may nominate another user for membership but just remember ..... this ain't no weenie roast!)



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ejay View Post
                        It seems like now the public is looking at every single Taser incident as if it were an abuse of power.
                        Me personally I think had we not had the taser there would be more officer involved shootings. unfortunately average joe is getting more dangerous... and the taser just ensures they show up for court on their attempted assault on a peace officer.

                        Originally posted by 1042 Trooper
                        Just remember, perception is truth in this world, unfortunately.
                        I suspect this is why we have cropped videos on youtube now ... to only get what the police are doing in angles that don't show the real picture. 2 examples come to mind... the california campus library ordeal with the iranian (??) student being tased, and the lawsuit for excessive force when that dude was slammed up on the patrol car... for grabbing at the officers genitals (i would have been ****ed too)

                        like the "NO SNITCHING" campaign in rap videos, violent retaliation, and t-shirt sayings.. i think like the constant lawsuits and other negative things directed towards law enforcement... this is more of a ploy to reduce or destroy the police forces out there and to get something for nothing (money or notoriety).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tim Dees View Post
                          I doubt if there are any hard numbers on this, because everyone counts these incidents as little differently, but I would bet that far fewer suspects get injured getting TASERed than are injured with other force measures. TASER makes a selling point of the lower IOD stats in agencies using the TASER, and if fewer officers are getting hurt, I'd think fewer suspects are getting hurt, too.
                          My department (like many others) is now very much in the process of computerized tracking of all use of force incidents, that go beyond the simple act of restraint (prior to and during handcuffing). It's going to be very interesting to see if more force incidents will be occurring due to the fairly recent issuance of tasers on a general basis. I really hope the "new toy" theory of mine doesn't hold up, but I believe there's a good possibility it will. We have an obvious spike in the number of UOF incidents immediately following defensive tactics training ("hands on types") too, when that training hasn't been formally given in a significant period of time. In those cases, officer injuries also seem to spike (not just injuries to offenders). Hopefully, over time the taser (like all our tools) will simply be recognized as another option to be used only when necessary.
                          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 1042 Trooper View Post
                            Just remember, perception is truth in this world, unfortunately. It is true that both officer and idiot injuries go way down when the TAZER is used, but the media is distorting this in favor of the dramatic few.

                            Reminds me of the old bar arm control hold. The media called it a choke hold when it was not. The result? The hold was effectively ended, and I had used it many times with complete success.

                            I never even killed anyone, as some claim the hold did.
                            I have used that move quite a few times before the taser came along. Everytime I used it the move worked splendidly. However. I must add that I took a big sigh of relief everytime the badguy came out of it and started showing signs of life.
                            Prov 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'll bet the taser is used less than OC was when it was introduced to that agency.

                              I'll bet OC is used more in those agencies where not everyone carries a taser.

                              Comment

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