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  • #91
    This thread has been all over the place. Keep the commentary coming

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    • #92
      Originally posted by scotty_appleton814 View Post
      This thread has been all over the place. Keep the commentary coming
      Doubtful that’s going to happen. There’s a reluctance to call out the cowardice and ineptitude of the LEO’s on scene. The video that was released is pretty cut and dried and proves that the earlier claim that active shooter stopped firing and was a barricaded subject was wrong. They had a full element in the hallway and the shooter fired more shots. No one made any attempt to man up and stop the killing.

      People who want to stick their heads in the sand and hope this incident is forgotten need to realize that this affects all of us. We know policing is different jurisdiction to jurisdiction. We know our training departments and colleagues will do a better job than Uvalde.

      The public by and large don’t know that. They mistakenly see LE as one big entity. We can’t individually change the minds of people hundreds of miles outside our jurisdictions, but we can absolutely call out bad cops because they are making our jobs tougher.

      I have zero problem throwing the cops in Uvalde under the bus. They **** the bed when children needed them. They suck.

      Comment


      • #93
        "They **** the bed when children needed them. They suck." may be a true statement (depending on your perspective), but it's not productive. Whether they "**** the bed" or "suck" is irrelevant at this point in the game and serves no purpose but to make LE in general look like crap.

        The fact of the matter is simple...bad decisions were made. Whether those decisions were at an administrative or operational level is a question for those analyzing the circumstances of this particular case. All of us on the outside harping on the specifics of this case are just Monday Morning Quarterbacking it when we should be considering what those bad decisions were, comparing them to how we do things ourselves, and applying any appropriate changes to our own local departmental tactics.

        As for keeping this conversation going, the reality is that we shouldn't be discussing tactics on an open forum anyway. So, if we want to keep going round and round about the particulars of this case, so be it...beyond adding your personal two cents or venting, I'm not sure I see the point.
        "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
        -Friedrich Nietzsche

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Bing_Oh View Post
          "They **** the bed when children needed them. They suck." may be a true statement (depending on your perspective), but it's not productive. Whether they "**** the bed" or "suck" is irrelevant at this point in the game and serves no purpose but to make LE in general look like crap.

          The fact of the matter is simple...bad decisions were made. Whether those decisions were at an administrative or operational level is a question for those analyzing the circumstances of this particular case. All of us on the outside harping on the specifics of this case are just Monday Morning Quarterbacking it when we should be considering what those bad decisions were, comparing them to how we do things ourselves, and applying any appropriate changes to our own local departmental tactics.
          Disagree. IMO, failure to call out bad actors in LE makes LE look like crap. Circling the wagons makes LE look like crap. Harping on specifics is one thing, (dur, they used port arms instead of Sul), publicly pile-driving cowards who hid in a hallway is another.

          Old-school LE is all about “making examples” out of perps. Maybe LE should verbally make examples out of empty uniforms. Bunch of self-proclaimed “warriors” failed to act on 5/24. I’m fine if they read my posts.

          Comment


          • PNW.CFE
            PNW.CFE commented
            Editing a comment
            They didn't just make bad decisions. They didn't even just make bad decisions and then try to cover it up. They made bad decisions and then tried to cast themselves as heroes. And some people who should know better, even here on this forum, bought into that narrative. Eagerly.

            https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022...20killed%20him.

          • Grunt2LEO
            Grunt2LEO commented
            Editing a comment
            So true PNW. More “sheepdog” posturing.

          • Bing_Oh
            Bing_Oh commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm neither "sheepdogging" nor "posturing." If you'll look back on my posts on this subject, you'll find that I have been logical and rational about my analysis of what happened (including the mistakes made) and certainly have not been shy about casting a critical eye on the officers' actions. You'll not find me wagon-circling when a LEO screws up.

            You are being emotional in your critique. It serves no purpose...I seriously doubt that the officers involved, the administrators trying to cover their rears, or the politicians trying to turn this into a political circus are reading your critiques (or particularly care about a nameless LEO's opinion on the topic). Fox News and CNN are not pulling comments off the o.com message board to distribute to the world. In short, you're not throwing anybody under the bus, you're just venting. If you want to make a difference, then critique the tactics and mistakes and apply those critiques to YOUR department if (God forbid) you are ever in a similar situation.

          • Grunt2LEO
            Grunt2LEO commented
            Editing a comment
            Apologies @bing-oh, I meant Uvalde and their LEO’s were posturing.

            I’m absolutely allowing emotion in my critique. A couple of my children are still elementary school aged. The thought of grown men standing by while children are being slaughtered offends me to my core.

            You’re right, they probably won’t read this. I’m hoping someone who is on the fence reads this though and they do a true inventory of themselves. Are they ready to throw this 1* BS out the window when innocents are being killed?

            As far as your opinion that my response serving no purpose, you’re entitled to that. I’ll internet how I want to internet. You do the same

        • #95
          Plenty of fault and indecisiveness to go around:

          https://www.police1.com/active-shoot...WJyOXUFbnbixJ/

          Comment


          • #96
            The ALERT report that Texas DPS asked them to write came out last week.

            https://alerrt.org/

            Long story short, the responding officers lost initiative when they came under fire and never regained it. This, coupled with bad decisions compounded on top of bad decisions resulted in failure. It is a valuable read.
            Last edited by just joe; 07-18-2022, 11:59 AM.

            Comment


            • #97
              And now Gov Abbott is joining in on the criticism.

              https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/gove...ting-in-uvalde

              Comment


              • #98
                Bunch of heroes....Ruiz can thank the people in that hallway for preventing him from getting to his wife while she was bleeding out.

                But barricaded subject and "just following orders", amirite boys?

                https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...g-17317065.php

                Comment


                • #99
                  Originally posted by Grunt2LEO View Post
                  Bunch of heroes....Ruiz can thank the people in that hallway for preventing him from getting to his wife while she was bleeding out.

                  But barricaded subject and "just following orders", amirite boys?

                  https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...g-17317065.php
                  So what exactly is your point in rehashing all this and attacking people?

                  Didnt get your pound of flesh yet..? Gets you a warm fuzzy?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CCCSD View Post

                    So what exactly is your point in rehashing all this and attacking people?

                    Didnt get your pound of flesh yet..? Gets you a warm fuzzy?
                    It’s added information for the “wait and see” crowd. Not sure why updates on the incident make you upset. I don’t think I’m the one in need of “warm fuzzies” when it comes to cop stories.

                    This is one of the most glaring LE failures in recent history…do you just think it’s going away?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Grunt2LEO View Post

                      It’s added information for the “wait and see” crowd. Not sure why updates on the incident make you upset. I don’t think I’m the one in need of “warm fuzzies” when it comes to cop stories.

                      This is one of the most glaring LE failures in recent history…do you just think it’s going away?
                      Are you still on the Job or did you get terminated?

                      Comment


                      • Grunt2LEO
                        Grunt2LEO commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I don’t even know who you are…

                    • Originally posted by Grunt2LEO View Post

                      It’s added information for the “wait and see” crowd. Not sure why updates on the incident make you upset. I don’t think I’m the one in need of “warm fuzzies” when it comes to cop stories.

                      This is one of the most glaring LE failures in recent history…do you just think it’s going away?
                      If you were a cop, you’d know.

                      Comment


                      • PNW.CFE
                        PNW.CFE commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Yeah I remember the last time you insinuated someone here wasn't a real cop...I'm still here, by the way.

                        I guess when you can't counter the substance of an argument, all you have left are ad hominem attacks.

                      • Grunt2LEO
                        Grunt2LEO commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Good grief dude, seriously? This is the UVALDE THREAD. I didn’t even create the dang thing, it was here when I popped back in to the forum. I’m still working my assignments, taking my job seriously. The fact that you guys attack a messenger when you dislike factual messages is a great indicator of why this forum has done a nosedive.

                    • Originally posted by Grunt2LEO View Post
                      Bunch of heroes....Ruiz can thank the people in that hallway for preventing him from getting to his wife while she was bleeding out.

                      But barricaded subject and "just following orders", amirite boys?

                      https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...g-17317065.php
                      Whether you're a cop or not, your anti-cop tone is wearing thin.

                      Comment


                      • Grunt2LEO
                        Grunt2LEO commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Calling out cowards who wear the badge is anti-cop? Being tired of posers is anti-cop? Needling the sunshine pumpers here is anti-cop?

                        The Officer.com definition of anti-cop must have changed.

                    • Originally posted by Aidokea View Post

                      Whether you're a cop or not, your anti-cop tone is wearing thin.
                      Sounds like this person got the boot, and now has a vendetta against the Police.

                      Comment


                      • Grunt2LEO
                        Grunt2LEO commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Nice stretch. They teach you how to wildly jump to any conclusion that suits you at the academy?

                      • Bigfoot1020
                        Bigfoot1020 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Sure Pal, whatever you say.

                      • Grunt2LEO
                        Grunt2LEO commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Be clear you’re not my pal, anyone who questions my service because I write something that offends their feelings is no friend of mine.

                      • Bigfoot1020
                        Bigfoot1020 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Ok buddy, hope you have a great day, pal.

                    • Here's my (unsolicited) take...Bing_Oh is 100% right that this should be taken as a training point, an opportunity to learn from the decision failures of these officers and agents. Totally valid point.
                      It's also true that public rebuke and accountability serves a purpose beyond simple catharsis. The public does pay attention to how the LE community responds to these things. The initial response was largely supportive...the officers were viewed as heroes by some, while others bent over backwards to justify what looked like mistakes, or at worst many cops were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until more information came in.

                      Now we have more information, so where are those cops? Most are not coming back to update their positions. Now the talking point seems to be "move on". This is hardly old news. The report just came out. But it's time to move on already. OK.

                      As a whole, we are a community that struggles with holding our own accountable for mistakes, which has the effect of sanctioning bad behavior. There wouldn't be much to talk about if the mistakes were recognized right away, condemned, and corrected. But that's not what happened. So the conversation shifts from the mistakes, to the immediate cover up, to the larger failure to confront LE failures. Uvalde is about all of that. It's not something that happened and is done. It's still happening.

                      Comment


                      • Grunt2LEO
                        Grunt2LEO commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Steel on target.

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