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  • #76
    Originally posted by NolaT View Post
    As it should be,………

    Was the classroom door seriously unlocked??!!
    It seems like the excuse dominos the School District PD chief set up are falling one by one...

    "We were waiting for rifles."

    Video shows officers in the hall with rifles shortly after they first arrive on scene.

    "We were waiting for shields."

    Video shows officers with shields in the hallway.

    "We were waiting for entry tools."

    Radio traffic indicates an officer had a halligan tool.

    "We were waiting for keys."

    Classroom door was unlocked.
    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
    -Friedrich Nietzsche


    • #77
      Total incompetence


      • #78
        Originally posted by tanksoldier View Post

        Police should’ve found a way to breach the door earlier.

        There is no one right answer in these situations as there are too many variables; however, the police were shot through a concrete wall. The classroom door was an outward opening steel door set into a concrete wall with a steel door frame. This type of door is incredibly difficult to breach without special tools, and they are designed to keep active shooters out.

        At the time the police were able to regroup after dragging the injured officers out, the shooting had stopped. This classified the situation as a barricaded gunman with hostages. Rushing a hostage taker will often force them to begin executing hostages, and this is especially true if you cannot breach a door within a split second and utilize the element of surprise. An example of this can be seen with the little girl that the gunman killed as BORTAC was preparing to breach.

        The police admitted that they screwed up and made the wrong call in a press conference.

        A Texas DPS official who was speaking from a place of emotion made some statements that have been completely taken out of context.

        During these situations, in the moment, you only know what you know, and you don’t know what you don’t know. Decisions can only be made based on what you know at the time.

        “With the benefit of hindsight, where I’m sitting now, of course it was not the right decision, it was the wrong decision, period,” Col. McCraw said.

        The keywords in the above statement are “with the benefit of hindsight” and “where I’m sitting right now”. His remarks stating that it was the wrong decision come from the luxury of having more information on hand and more time to evaluate that information than any of the officers who were on scene during the shooting had. Everyone is taking this quote out of context to mean that he’s saying the officers who rushed in made the wrong decisions based on what they knew at the time.

        Active shooter response training has evolved over the years since Columbine, and it continues to evolve as police conduct After Action Reviews of each incident. With that being said, an active shooter is only an “active shooter” when they are actively shooting or on the move. Once the shooting stops and a suspect is contained, it is protocol to slow everything down and treat the situation as a barricaded gunman, and in this case, a barricaded gunman with hostages. The next step is to bring in/initiate negotiations.

        Uvalde PD did this.

        The shooter was classified as an active shooter briefly when officers entered the school. He shot through a concrete wall and hit 2 officers. Officers did not return fire because the gunman was in a classroom with kids, and they couldn’t see him to identify a clear shot. The risk of hitting a kid was too great, and they were only equipped with handguns at the time. As police were pulling the 2 injured officers to safety, the shooting stopped and there wasn’t a single shot for another 40 minutes.

        Police began evacuating over 100 kids and faculty to safety while the gunman was contained. They were also notifying BORTAC to respond with special equipment, and searching the school for a master key.

        It is understandable to question how this happened, how he entered the school, and what took so long to neutralize him; however, the officers who responded did what they could with the information that they had at the time and the resources they had available to them.

        A better picture of why the department didn’t have these tools readily available, why there wasn’t a better determined method of full access to the building, etc needs to be determined, but it is fundamentally wrong to be placing all of this blame on the officers who ran into the school. 4 of them had kids of their own inside.

        These claims are what is already out there being spread, and the alternate opinions are based on listening to every 911 call, reading transcripts, comparing timelines, listening to press conferences, gathering consistent info from articles, talking to local officers and parents via PM, and knowing the standard protocols and incident command logistical obstacles during extremely fluid events.

        -Greg James[/i]
        You may say "total incompetence" now, but when the above quote was originally posted, several of you liked it, reposted it, and strongly defended it. And attacked me when I questioned it. But now it's obvious they should have gone in? Obvious that it was an active shooter scenario and not a hostage scenario? Now we don't want them to set a perimeter and call for a negotiator?

        In the time since this thread was started, I've been to three more active shooter trainings. Still haven't been told to transition to any other kind of response once the shooting "stops". Still being told to search for indicators when it's quiet, run towards stimulus when it's not, and eliminate the threat when it's identified.

        Maybe we should be careful with the knee-jerk defensiveness of cops who clearly made mistakes. As someone else on here pointed out, recognizing those mistakes is how we learn from them. Justifying the mistakes doesn't help the profession.
        Last edited by PNW.CFE; 06-23-2022, 07:43 AM. Reason: Edited to correct typo


        • #79
          My claim of total incompetence was directed at the secure / unsecure door situation, as deputies are stacked outside, waiting for keys.

          Not being there on scene I’ll hold judgement until more details are released, but as more details are released this whole situation appears to be getting worse and worse for those in charge,…..
          Last edited by NolaT; 06-23-2022, 09:26 AM.


          • #80
            Well, they did successfully follow the First Rule of Law Enforcement. Everything else was a fail.


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