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  • #31
    Originally posted by just joe View Post
    I find it hard to believe that officers were stacked in a hallway while rounds were popping off.
    Agreed, hopefully not true.

    Comment


    • #32
      ONLY WARNING: If you post a personal insult toward any forum member, you'll get a 30-day ban.
      IF YOU ARE NOT ACTIVE OR RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT, YOU CANNOT POST REPLIES OR COMMENTS IN THIS SECTION. IF YOU DO SO YOU WILL BE BANNED.
      Last edited by OfficerDotCom; 05-31-2022, 05:48 AM.
      sigpic
      The Web's Source for Law Enforcement
      PM for Technical Support or visit our contact page.

      Comment


      • #33
        The story keeps developing:

        "A law enforcement source familiar with the investigation said surveillance video and audio verifies that the teacher removed the rock keeping the door open, then closed it."

        https://www.expressnews.com/news/loc...r-17209972.php

        Comment


        • #34
          Another thing, what’s with this border patrol guy? He was getting a hair cut when he got a text message from his wife for help. He borrowed a shotgun from his barber and responded to the school. Pictures of him online looks like he’s rocking an AR across his body. Anyone else heard this story?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by 1RidgeRunner7 View Post
            Another thing, what’s with this border patrol guy? He was getting a hair cut when he got a text message from his wife for help. He borrowed a shotgun from his barber and responded to the school. Pictures of him online looks like he’s rocking an AR across his body. Anyone else heard this story?
            This one:
            https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-wif-rcna31185
            He did want anyone wouldve done in a similar situation, not only given the fact small town EQUALS most folks know each other.
            I'd rather be judged by 12 rather carried by 6.

            It should be noted that any and all post that are made are based on my own thought and opinions. And are not related or implied to represent the department I work for.

            Comment


            • 1RidgeRunner7
              1RidgeRunner7 commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes I saw this a few days ago. I've been watching Officer Tatum on YouTube. He's done a good job in breaking done the shooting.

          • #36
            Originally posted by 1RidgeRunner7 View Post
            Another thing, what’s with this border patrol guy? He was getting a hair cut when he got a text message from his wife for help. He borrowed a shotgun from his barber and responded to the school. Pictures of him online looks like he’s rocking an AR across his body. Anyone else heard this story?
            His barber had a shotgun in his truck, so the officer grabbed the shotgun and some shells out of the barber's truck.

            Comment


            • #37
              Originally posted by just joe View Post

              His barber had a shotgun in his truck, so the officer grabbed the shotgun and some shells out of the barber's truck.
              I live in suburban Chicago. At my barbershop it's many legal gun owners at any moment. I can imagine how many guys are running thru a barbershop in gun haven Texas

              Comment


              • #38
                Originally posted by paycopsmore
                The teachers at the school are responsible for almost 2 dozen dead children. I remember when I was in HS sometimes students would prop open the doors so they can smoke outside and Easily get back in. When they were caught they were suspended and repeat offenders were expelled. And it was for this very reason we had those rules in place. If the DOJ wants to investigate anyone they should be investigating the teachers
                As with everything else in this case, the door story keeps evolving. It is now being reported that video evidence confirms that the teacher in question did, in fact, pull the door shut prior to the attack. However, the door's self-locking mechanism did not engage properly, allowing the shooter to enter the building. [The teacher had used a rock to briefly prop up the door while carrying food from a vehicle to the school. She kicked away the rock and pulled the door shut when she spotted the gunman].

                Comment


                • PNW.CFE
                  PNW.CFE commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I agree, the news appears to indicate the door was closed, but even if it wasn't, would we be comfortable blaming the teacher for the deaths of these students? That seems like a double standard to me...trained police make a tactical error, potentially resulting in more deaths, but we don't hold them responsible. A teacher props open a door, and they might as well have pulled the trigger themselves? That doesn't seem logically inconsistent to anyone?

                  In reality, the ONLY person responsible for these deaths is the gunman. The police should be accountable for any errors in judgment (because it's our job to get it right and lives depend on it), and teachers for any violations of policy or security protocol. But maybe let's chill out with the vehement condemnation of a teacher who at very worst made an innocent mistake (and if you believe the news, not even that). It's maybe not a good look for law enforcement to be bashing on teachers in an incident where teachers were the victims.
                  Last edited by PNW.CFE; 06-02-2022, 12:49 AM.

              • #39
                Originally posted by paycopsmore
                The teachers at the school are responsible for almost 2 dozen dead children. I remember when I was in HS sometimes students would prop open the doors so they can smoke outside and Easily get back in. When they were caught they were suspended and repeat offenders were expelled. And it was for this very reason we had those rules in place. If the DOJ wants to investigate anyone they should be investigating the teachers
                No, the person who murdered them is responsible.

                Comment


                • #40
                  To the poster who asked why his link to the timeline keeps getting deleted: it's because you keep posting links to competitor sites. We're well aware that Officer.com doesn't have a timeline posted. We are preparing a comprehensive VERIFIABLE report of the event - but such takes time unless we want to spread inaccurate information like so many other websites.
                  sigpic
                  The Web's Source for Law Enforcement
                  PM for Technical Support or visit our contact page.

                  Comment


                  • vdfnco
                    vdfnco commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank you for the reply.

                • #41
                  From GeorgiaLeo.com:

                  OP-ED
                  Below is a list of false claims that are being made about the Uvalde shooting

                  CLAIM
                  The exterior door to the school was propped open when the gunman entered.

                  FALSE
                  A teacher heard the shooter wreck his truck, ran outside to call 911, and was told by a neighboring funeral home that he had a gun. She ran back inside while removing a rock that was propping the door open. The doors are supposed to automatically lock when they close, but it didn’t. That cause is being investigated.

                  CLAIM
                  Police were too scared to enter the school until Border Patrol got there.

                  FALSE
                  Police entered the school 4 minutes after the initial 911 call. As they approached the classroom where the shooter was, he shot through the wall injuring 2 officers. Police could not return fire for risk of injuring kids inside, and they were only equipped with handguns.

                  CLAIM
                  A border Patrol agent retrieved a shotgun from his barber, and entered the school to take out the shooter because the police wouldn’t.

                  FALSE
                  An agent did retrieve a shotgun from his barber and entered the school, but he stacked up in the hallway with police.

                  CLAIM
                  Police sat in the hallway for 40 minutes while the shooter killed 19 kids.

                  FALSE
                  The shooter shot 18 kids in the 4 minutes before the police entered the building. He then shot 2 of those officers, but there wasn’t a single shot fired from the time they dragged both officers out until BORTAC arrived on scene. During that time, police kept the gunman pinned in one location, evacuated the rest of the school, and eventually found the Principal who was hiding with the master key.

                  EDIT 6/2/22 @ 1pm
                  It was initially understood that BORTAC called out to the students inside the classroom, and the gunman shot the girl who did; however, we’ve just received a message from a Uvalde family stating that a boy inside the classroom said “to fool everyone in the room the gunman yelled out “if anyone needs help. Yell Help”. A girl in the classroom yelled and the gunman shot her. This is what prompted BORTAC to breach the door.

                  CLAIM
                  Police should’ve found a way to breach the door earlier.

                  MOSTLY-FALSE
                  There is no one right answer in these situations as there are too many variables; however, the police were shot through a concrete wall. The classroom door was an outward opening steel door set into a concrete wall with a steel door frame. This type of door is incredibly difficult to breach without special tools, and they are designed to keep active shooters out.

                  At the time the police were able to regroup after dragging the injured officers out, the shooting had stopped. This classified the situation as a barricaded gunman with hostages. Rushing a hostage taker will often force them to begin executing hostages, and this is especially true if you cannot breach a door within a split second and utilize the element of surprise. An example of this can be seen with the little girl that the gunman killed as BORTAC was preparing to breach.

                  CLAIM
                  The police admitted that they screwed up and made the wrong call in a press conference.

                  FALSE
                  A Texas DPS official who was speaking from a place of emotion made some statements that have been completely taken out of context.

                  During these situations, in the moment, you only know what you know, and you don’t know what you don’t know. Decisions can only be made based on what you know at the time.

                  “With the benefit of hindsight, where I’m sitting now, of course it was not the right decision, it was the wrong decision, period,” Col. McCraw said.

                  The keywords in the above statement are “with the benefit of hindsight” and “where I’m sitting right now”. His remarks stating that it was the wrong decision come from the luxury of having more information on hand and more time to evaluate that information than any of the officers who were on scene during the shooting had. Everyone is taking this quote out of context to mean that he’s saying the officers who rushed in made the wrong decisions based on what they knew at the time.

                  IMPORTANT NOTES
                  Active shooter response training has evolved over the years since Columbine, and it continues to evolve as police conduct After Action Reviews of each incident. With that being said, an active shooter is only an “active shooter” when they are actively shooting or on the move. Once the shooting stops and a suspect is contained, it is protocol to slow everything down and treat the situation as a barricaded gunman, and in this case, a barricaded gunman with hostages. The next step is to bring in/initiate negotiations.

                  Uvalde PD did this.

                  The shooter was classified as an active shooter briefly when officers entered the school. He shot through a concrete wall and hit 2 officers. Officers did not return fire because the gunman was in a classroom with kids, and they couldn’t see him to identify a clear shot. The risk of hitting a kid was too great, and they were only equipped with handguns at the time. As police were pulling the 2 injured officers to safety, the shooting stopped and there wasn’t a single shot for another 40 minutes.

                  Police began evacuating over 100 kids and faculty to safety while the gunman was contained. They were also notifying BORTAC to respond with special equipment, and searching the school for a master key.

                  CONCLUSION
                  It is understandable to question how this happened, how he entered the school, and what took so long to neutralize him; however, the officers who responded did what they could with the information that they had at the time and the resources they had available to them.

                  A better picture of why the department didn’t have these tools readily available, why there wasn’t a better determined method of full access to the building, etc needs to be determined, but it is fundamentally wrong to be placing all of this blame on the officers who ran into the school. 4 of them had kids of their own inside.

                  These claims are what is already out there being spread, and the alternate opinions are based on listening to every 911 call, reading transcripts, comparing timelines, listening to press conferences, gathering consistent info from articles, talking to local officers and parents via PM, and knowing the standard protocols and incident command logistical obstacles during extremely fluid events.

                  -Greg James
                  Last edited by tanksoldier; 06-02-2022, 09:50 PM.
                  "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

                  "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

                  Comment


                  • #42
                    Originally posted by tanksoldier View Post
                    From GeorgiaLeo.com:

                    OP-ED
                    Below is a list of false claims that are being made about the Uvalde shooting

                    CLAIM
                    The exterior door to the school was propped open when the gunman entered.

                    FALSE
                    A teacher heard the shooter wreck his truck, ran outside to call 911, and was told by a neighboring funeral home that he had a gun. She ran back inside while removing a rock that was propping the door open. The doors are supposed to automatically lock when they close, but it didn’t. That cause is being investigated.

                    CLAIM
                    Police were too scared to enter the school until Border Patrol got there.

                    FALSE
                    Police entered the school 4 minutes after the initial 911 call. As they approached the classroom where the shooter was, he shot through the wall injuring 2 officers. Police could not return fire for risk of injuring kids inside, and they were only equipped with handguns.

                    CLAIM
                    A border Patrol agent retrieved a shotgun from his barber, and entered the school to take out the shooter because the police wouldn’t.

                    FALSE
                    An agent did retrieve a shotgun from his barber and entered the school, but he stacked up in the hallway with police.

                    CLAIM
                    Police sat in the hallway for 40 minutes while the shooter killed 19 kids.

                    FALSE
                    The shooter shot 18 kids in the 4 minutes before the police entered the building. He then shot 2 of those officers, but there wasn’t a single shot fired from the time they dragged both officers out until BORTAC arrived on scene. During that time, police kept the gunman pinned in one location, evacuated the rest of the school, and eventually found the Principal who was hiding with the master key.

                    EDIT 6/2/22 @ 1pm
                    It was initially understood that BORTAC called out to the students inside the classroom, and the gunman shot the girl who did; however, we’ve just received a message from a Uvalde family stating that a boy inside the classroom said “to fool everyone in the room the gunman yelled out “if anyone needs help. Yell Help”. A girl in the classroom yelled and the gunman shot her. This is what prompted BORTAC to breach the door.

                    CLAIM
                    Police should’ve found a way to breach the door earlier.

                    MOSTLY-FALSE
                    There is no one right answer in these situations as there are too many variables; however, the police were shot through a concrete wall. The classroom door was an outward opening steel door set into a concrete wall with a steel door frame. This type of door is incredibly difficult to breach without special tools, and they are designed to keep active shooters out.

                    At the time the police were able to regroup after dragging the injured officers out, the shooting had stopped. This classified the situation as a barricaded gunman with hostages. Rushing a hostage taker will often force them to begin executing hostages, and this is especially true if you cannot breach a door within a split second and utilize the element of surprise. An example of this can be seen with the little girl that the gunman killed as BORTAC was preparing to breach.

                    CLAIM
                    The police admitted that they screwed up and made the wrong call in a press conference.

                    FALSE
                    A Texas DPS official who was speaking from a place of emotion made some statements that have been completely taken out of context.

                    During these situations, in the moment, you only know what you know, and you don’t know what you don’t know. Decisions can only be made based on what you know at the time.

                    “With the benefit of hindsight, where I’m sitting now, of course it was not the right decision, it was the wrong decision, period,” Col. McCraw said.

                    The keywords in the above statement are “with the benefit of hindsight” and “where I’m sitting right now”. His remarks stating that it was the wrong decision come from the luxury of having more information on hand and more time to evaluate that information than any of the officers who were on scene during the shooting had. Everyone is taking this quote out of context to mean that he’s saying the officers who rushed in made the wrong decisions based on what they knew at the time.

                    IMPORTANT NOTES
                    Active shooter response training has evolved over the years since Columbine, and it continues to evolve as police conduct After Action Reviews of each incident. With that being said, an active shooter is only an “active shooter” when they are actively shooting or on the move. Once the shooting stops and a suspect is contained, it is protocol to slow everything down and treat the situation as a barricaded gunman, and in this case, a barricaded gunman with hostages. The next step is to bring in/initiate negotiations.

                    Uvalde PD did this.

                    The shooter was classified as an active shooter briefly when officers entered the school. He shot through a concrete wall and hit 2 officers. Officers did not return fire because the gunman was in a classroom with kids, and they couldn’t see him to identify a clear shot. The risk of hitting a kid was too great, and they were only equipped with handguns at the time. As police were pulling the 2 injured officers to safety, the shooting stopped and there wasn’t a single shot for another 40 minutes.

                    Police began evacuating over 100 kids and faculty to safety while the gunman was contained. They were also notifying BORTAC to respond with special equipment, and searching the school for a master key.

                    CONCLUSION
                    It is understandable to question how this happened, how he entered the school, and what took so long to neutralize him; however, the officers who responded did what they could with the information that they had at the time and the resources they had available to them.

                    A better picture of why the department didn’t have these tools readily available, why there wasn’t a better determined method of full access to the building, etc needs to be determined, but it is fundamentally wrong to be placing all of this blame on the officers who ran into the school. 4 of them had kids of their own inside.

                    These claims are what is already out there being spread, and the alternate opinions are based on listening to every 911 call, reading transcripts, comparing timelines, listening to press conferences, gathering consistent info from articles, talking to local officers and parents via PM, and knowing the standard protocols and incident command logistical obstacles during extremely fluid events.

                    -Greg James
                    Sticky this.

                    Comment


                    • #43
                      I'll buy just about all of that.

                      But I would also believe that the teachers were all trained that those exterior doors stay closed and locked, that opening it was a violation of school policy, that propping it open with a rock was a violation of school policy, and that failing to verify that it was locked again after she went back in was a violation of school policy.

                      Saying that "the doors are supposed to lock automatically" is weak. Are we blaming the door for her not verifying that it was secured? Are we blaming the school's maintenance guy? The person that installed the door? The company that designed and built the door? That's silly- she just let the door swing shut, and didn't bother to check it. When I lock a door, I ALWAYS push/pull on it after I close it, to make sure it's secured.

                      And to be clear, that door WAS locked, but she didn't LATCH it- it wasn't all the way closed.
                      Last edited by Aidokea; 06-03-2022, 01:35 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #44
                        Originally posted by tanksoldier View Post
                        From GeorgiaLeo.com:

                        OP-ED
                        Below is a list of false claims that are being made about the Uvalde shooting

                        CLAIM
                        The exterior door to the school was propped open when the gunman entered.

                        FALSE
                        A teacher heard the shooter wreck his truck, ran outside to call 911, and was told by a neighboring funeral home that he had a gun. She ran back inside while removing a rock that was propping the door open. The doors are supposed to automatically lock when they close, but it didn’t. That cause is being investigated.

                        CLAIM
                        Police were too scared to enter the school until Border Patrol got there.

                        FALSE
                        Police entered the school 4 minutes after the initial 911 call. As they approached the classroom where the shooter was, he shot through the wall injuring 2 officers. Police could not return fire for risk of injuring kids inside, and they were only equipped with handguns.

                        CLAIM
                        A border Patrol agent retrieved a shotgun from his barber, and entered the school to take out the shooter because the police wouldn’t.

                        FALSE
                        An agent did retrieve a shotgun from his barber and entered the school, but he stacked up in the hallway with police.

                        CLAIM
                        Police sat in the hallway for 40 minutes while the shooter killed 19 kids.

                        FALSE
                        The shooter shot 18 kids in the 4 minutes before the police entered the building. He then shot 2 of those officers, but there wasn’t a single shot fired from the time they dragged both officers out until BORTAC arrived on scene. During that time, police kept the gunman pinned in one location, evacuated the rest of the school, and eventually found the Principal who was hiding with the master key.

                        EDIT 6/2/22 @ 1pm
                        It was initially understood that BORTAC called out to the students inside the classroom, and the gunman shot the girl who did; however, we’ve just received a message from a Uvalde family stating that a boy inside the classroom said “to fool everyone in the room the gunman yelled out “if anyone needs help. Yell Help”. A girl in the classroom yelled and the gunman shot her. This is what prompted BORTAC to breach the door.

                        CLAIM
                        Police should’ve found a way to breach the door earlier.

                        MOSTLY-FALSE
                        There is no one right answer in these situations as there are too many variables; however, the police were shot through a concrete wall. The classroom door was an outward opening steel door set into a concrete wall with a steel door frame. This type of door is incredibly difficult to breach without special tools, and they are designed to keep active shooters out.

                        At the time the police were able to regroup after dragging the injured officers out, the shooting had stopped. This classified the situation as a barricaded gunman with hostages. Rushing a hostage taker will often force them to begin executing hostages, and this is especially true if you cannot breach a door within a split second and utilize the element of surprise. An example of this can be seen with the little girl that the gunman killed as BORTAC was preparing to breach.

                        CLAIM
                        The police admitted that they screwed up and made the wrong call in a press conference.

                        FALSE
                        A Texas DPS official who was speaking from a place of emotion made some statements that have been completely taken out of context.

                        During these situations, in the moment, you only know what you know, and you don’t know what you don’t know. Decisions can only be made based on what you know at the time.

                        “With the benefit of hindsight, where I’m sitting now, of course it was not the right decision, it was the wrong decision, period,” Col. McCraw said.

                        The keywords in the above statement are “with the benefit of hindsight” and “where I’m sitting right now”. His remarks stating that it was the wrong decision come from the luxury of having more information on hand and more time to evaluate that information than any of the officers who were on scene during the shooting had. Everyone is taking this quote out of context to mean that he’s saying the officers who rushed in made the wrong decisions based on what they knew at the time.

                        IMPORTANT NOTES
                        Active shooter response training has evolved over the years since Columbine, and it continues to evolve as police conduct After Action Reviews of each incident. With that being said, an active shooter is only an “active shooter” when they are actively shooting or on the move. Once the shooting stops and a suspect is contained, it is protocol to slow everything down and treat the situation as a barricaded gunman, and in this case, a barricaded gunman with hostages. The next step is to bring in/initiate negotiations.

                        Uvalde PD did this.

                        The shooter was classified as an active shooter briefly when officers entered the school. He shot through a concrete wall and hit 2 officers. Officers did not return fire because the gunman was in a classroom with kids, and they couldn’t see him to identify a clear shot. The risk of hitting a kid was too great, and they were only equipped with handguns at the time. As police were pulling the 2 injured officers to safety, the shooting stopped and there wasn’t a single shot for another 40 minutes.

                        Police began evacuating over 100 kids and faculty to safety while the gunman was contained. They were also notifying BORTAC to respond with special equipment, and searching the school for a master key.

                        CONCLUSION
                        It is understandable to question how this happened, how he entered the school, and what took so long to neutralize him; however, the officers who responded did what they could with the information that they had at the time and the resources they had available to them.

                        A better picture of why the department didn’t have these tools readily available, why there wasn’t a better determined method of full access to the building, etc needs to be determined, but it is fundamentally wrong to be placing all of this blame on the officers who ran into the school. 4 of them had kids of their own inside.

                        These claims are what is already out there being spread, and the alternate opinions are based on listening to every 911 call, reading transcripts, comparing timelines, listening to press conferences, gathering consistent info from articles, talking to local officers and parents via PM, and knowing the standard protocols and incident command logistical obstacles during extremely fluid events.

                        -Greg James
                        See what happens when a bit of investigative time passes after an event and you learn more details about the mechanics of the event.

                        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                        Comment


                        • #45
                          Interesting read for sure

                          Comment

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